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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
03-17-2011, 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agathos_Daimon
Yes this is really annoying.

But my suggestion would not be to ajust the flight angle a few degrees, just of increase the vertical firing angle of cannons from now 45 to 60 (i would even suggest 70).

This change would make it easier to avoid cannons by horizontal moving, than by spiraling up. That somehow forces people to more maneuver in the horizontal plane, which as we know from the devs is the plane where STOs space combat should be primarily focused.
That would cause a whole load of balance issues, which would mean that the DPS output of cannons would have to be reduced. It would change the mechanics of the game too much to be feasible. Changing the flight angle is a simple, yet effective solution.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
03-17-2011, 09:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quetzaal
That would cause a whole load of balance issues, which would mean that the DPS output of cannons would have to be reduced. It would change the mechanics of the game too much to be feasible. Changing the flight angle is a simple, yet effective solution.
I don't see alot of balancing issues when the firing angle is only increased in the vertical.

I think the decision is up to the devs which changes fits there idea for STOs space combat better. From what they posted so far and the even smaller vertical flight angle after release i get the impression that STOs combat should mainly be in the horizontal. From that viewpoint any further increase in flight angle would be a step away from this concept.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
03-17-2011, 09:49 AM
This has been posted at multiple times over and over, last ones i can remember are here and here and is one of the most highly requested changes.

Unfortunately cryptic seems to consider PVP players to be a minority, so don't expect anything to happen, because ai ships don't fly up out of cannon arcs PVE fanbois aren't affected so nothing will change.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
03-17-2011, 09:56 AM
Keep in mind that this is not _just_ for the spiraling thing and the cannon thing.

My bigget issue is that there are no fun dogfights between the asteroids. No one wants to go there, everyone wants to explore the ceiling and get the annoying message box ...

And I think "just" fixing the spiraling thing would just move the combat closer to the spawn points. Not necessarily into the asteroid fields.

Maybe that is actually a solution - position the spawn points inside some "points of interest", or reasonably close to. The current circle of spawn gates is boring anyway. :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
03-17-2011, 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agathos_Daimon
I don't see alot of balancing issues when the firing angle is only increased in the vertical.

I think the decision is up to the devs which changes fits there idea for STOs space combat better. From what they posted so far and the even smaller vertical flight angle after release i get the impression that STOs combat should mainly be in the horizontal. From that viewpoint any further increase in flight angle would be a step away from this concept.
Firing arcs are always spherical in nature. (cone shape for cannons and DBBs, sphere with a chunk taken out for beam arrays) That means if they increase the firing arc of cannons in one direction, they increase the firing arc in all directions. Yes the game is designed to be played in plane, but then again, it's set in space. It would help with the arena issue, and for any PvEers it would help with gathering data samples that always end up being directly above or below you. Anyway, 67 degrees isn't all that far off what we have now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
Keep in mind that this is not _just_ for the spiraling thing and the cannon thing.

My bigget issue is that there are no fun dogfights between the asteroids. No one wants to go there, everyone wants to explore the ceiling and get the annoying message box ...
That's because fighting between all that junk is seriously annoying, especially when you get stuck in an asteroid trying to run away from focus fire. There needs to be some incentive to be there. At the moment there isn't any.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
03-17-2011, 10:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quetzaal
That's because fighting between all that junk is seriously annoying, especially when you get stuck in an asteroid trying to run away from focus fire. There needs to be some incentive to be there. At the moment there isn't any.
Target lock loss and Floating Attack intervention need to be added to make Asteroid combat fun. Though collision damage may be needed as well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
03-17-2011, 11:45 AM
What about having a ceiling-plane set 45k above and below the center of the map in which crossing over has an effect.
An affect like you can't attack/heal but can be attacked/healed by a player up to the line of demarcation. Of course, it would have to be a visible color and warning change as you get closer that way it is noticeable. Yet, not a safe zone to hover into and out of....as long as a player is 44900m his weapons will fire 10k into the "safe zone".
This way players couldn't abuse crossing over, they have to go real far in. So at the same time as you get close to the border you get "read out" saying how close you are letting you know you have to take the fight back down or risk losing out on being able to attack or heal.

Certainly it will change how teams have to fight, but it gives the same advantage to both sides. How? When you are 50k-90k up from teh spawn point it takes 20-30 seconds of full flight to get back in and at the 'proper' angle to aide your team. So spiraling up all the time to keep dead players from entering back into the fight quickly will not be such a big advantage of numbers and attrition. Having a ceiling that keeps you being part of the team effort is akin to distance required to travel back to be part of the team effort.
Since beam weapons can fire just as well up as they can down, you now have a new dynamic to keep your teams edge just as you would fighting in and around objects that block firing arcs.

just my idea,
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
03-17-2011, 11:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
Keep in mind that this is not _just_ for the spiraling thing and the cannon thing.

My bigget issue is that there are no fun dogfights between the asteroids. No one wants to go there, everyone wants to explore the ceiling and get the annoying message box ...

And I think "just" fixing the spiraling thing would just move the combat closer to the spawn points. Not necessarily into the asteroid fields.

Maybe that is actually a solution - position the spawn points inside some "points of interest", or reasonably close to. The current circle of spawn gates is boring anyway. :p
One way to draw a fight to the points of interest is to provide "king of the hill" style game mechanics, especially if the hill moves to a new point of interest after each capture.

As an additional plus, this game style allows for a team that has lost a few members to regroup to assault the next point rather than just racing back to support their team in the furball.

-snix
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
03-17-2011, 12:11 PM
Quote:
One way to draw a fight to the points of interest is to provide "king of the hill" style game mechanics, especially if the hill moves to a new point of interest after each capture.

As an additional plus, this game style allows for a team that has lost a few members to regroup to assault the next point rather than just racing back to support their team in the furball.

-snix
It is a type of mechanic we have in the Capture & Hold maps, except of course multiple locations active at all times at fixed locations. But there we see ships using the given options for cover and maneuvering. (And we also see them occassionally crashing into it and struggling there way out while they are under fire...)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
03-17-2011, 12:12 PM
Heres a crazy idea:

if your ship is flying within x distance of an asteroid or other space structure you ge a defense bonus?

this could perhaps give reason to fly very close to asteroids in order to dodge being shot maybe?
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