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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
03-22-2011, 06:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzie223
The only reason SS is being applied to carrier pets is that they are trying to walk back all the little decisions they made that created the current pvp spam fest. Feds whined non stop about the Kllingon pets, so they GOT pets. Then the design team threw in mines for fun. Now everyone can summon many things .... YAY ! Feds eat their cookie. Unfortunately, it broke play. So they are fixing it. It seems they are unable to separate real ship pets that are part of the flavor and character of the Klingon ships from Feds spamming their new toy non stop and turning to the left all fight like Nascar.
I don't pretend to know what reasons all played into this discussion ,but it was always considered a problem that carrier pets ignored the effects of scramble sensors. At least from the moment they started ignoring that, because I think that was not always the case. It basically came with the big carrier buff where you could start sending out multiple waves per bay.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
03-22-2011, 10:50 AM
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~GM Tiyshen
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
03-22-2011, 01:05 PM
I never once mentioned any desire to alter fed ships. It was necessary to outline the timeline because the problems surround things added for feds who wanted pets, and some ill-considered designer who added the cloaking mines.

Responses like cry more, QQ,,,nerf the Klingons more are laughably childish. WHy waste time filling the thread with teenage angst? Most people who played Klingons at release already know your side of the debate : Klingons are too tough, Klings have the best ships, ect ect ect ad nauseum. It is no longer the case, sorry to say. Bops have been nerfed repeatedly,,,the carrier is taking ANOTHER nerf hit, and you still cry for more nerfs.

Klingons are crowding more and more into what ships are fun. When our Birds of Prey are shooting us 75% of the time or each other because scarmble sensors has currently become the new 'Gravity Well' of spamdom, it will remove the last fun thing about the ship.

I PvP alot, both sides. I see what is happening, and the trouble is letting players have too many objects out at once. Mines, fighter, toy fighters, Hull repair drones, more mines, more mines... THey should cap how many objects a player can have out. Period. Changing the color and makeing it all shoot each other is a poor fix for the wrong problem.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
03-22-2011, 07:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzie223
I PvP alot, both sides. I see what is happening, and the trouble is letting players have too many objects out at once. Mines, fighter, toy fighters, Hull repair drones, more mines, more mines... THey should cap how many objects a player can have out. Period. Changing the color and makeing it all shoot each other is a poor fix for the wrong problem.
QFT

Even the changes to the mine launchers, dispersal patterns and limiting to only one pattern per mine type won't fix that side of it. Instead we'll see cruisers with Cloaking-Tractor mines, Chroniton Mines, Quantum Mines and Plasma Mines on the 4 aft mounts and the Breen Transphasic Cluster Torpedo on the front with dispersal Beta 1 in their Lt Tac slot just so they can still put out 5 sets of mines with as many per set as possible. Plus the 2 groups of 3 Scorpions each. If this is a Scientist in the Cruiser, add in the Photonic fleet. So we won't see much relief from the spam, just a slightly different form of it. Why this instead of the Beam Boats with the FAW changes? Because this will be the healers and tanks that want all that spam, especially with SS to make it harder for the enemy to target and then re-target them.

Of course with folks spreading their weapons types across so many types of mines and possibly putting some skill points into each type of projectile, it'll mean their jack-of-all trades build will still lose to the Master of One builds. This is more about player skill than character skill. Because those players running the Master of One builds have learned how much better they can perform in both PvP and PvE with such a build. These MoO types are also more likely to have been doing a LOT of PvP, thus are very well practiced, learned to coordinate with their team mates in both pre-made and PUGs. Thus the next round of nerf crys will come from those JoAT build folks who don't learn to work together and constantly lose. After all, it can't possibly be their lack of practice, lack of coordination and diluted JoAT build, because they "omgwtfpwn" everything in PvE, so should do the same in PvP. when they can't well, it must be the other team's ships are OP.

So yes, I agree, these folks will never learn how to win, because they don't want to when crying nerf is so much easier and actually works for what they want.

On that note, I do believe all pets and mines should be affected by scramble. So if both teams scramble at the same time it'll turn into a FFA for a few seconds. I just fear that these same devs who didn't think through the cloaking tractor mines, will also only look at the Carrier's pets and ignore the fact that those new toy pets everyone can launch are part of the same problem and should be affected the same way.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
03-23-2011, 03:32 AM
I have no issue with SS working on my pets...I am a carrier user (my main and has been since I could get into one) and have wondered why it didn't work already.

I do have a problem with ANYONE, fed or kdf coming here and saying "klingons/feds always cry and whine".

That kind of generalization is unfair and ignorant. There are many of us on the KDF side who are all for fair game, and we will admit when we are overpowered in an area. In fact, the forum posters who do come here and QQ about these unrealistic ideas of nerf and doom are a tiny piece of the KDF as a whole. So, instead of trying to put EVERYONE in the same bracket, why not call those who are being silly and unrealistic on THEIR faults and leaving the rest of us out of it?

That is the biggest flaw with opposing sides. You assume everyone that isn't a member of your faction is the same and wrong.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
03-23-2011, 07:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzie223
I never once mentioned any desire to alter fed ships. It was necessary to outline the timeline because the problems surround things added for feds who wanted pets, and some ill-considered designer who added the cloaking mines.

Responses like cry more, QQ,,,nerf the Klingons more are laughably childish. WHy waste time filling the thread with teenage angst?
Yeah, that's really unneeded.

Quote:
Bops have been nerfed repeatedly
The only nerfs that hit the BoP have hit others ships as well. Power changes, weapon changes ,console changes... All that affected many ship types, and non directly targeted the BoP.

I think if anything, you have seen an option or power creep that has infringed on the Bops territory.
BO layouts used to be more stringent before the Excelsior, Nebula, D'Kyr and MVAM Escorts arrived.

But the BoP itself, its base stats, haven't changed across all that. And neither have the ships changed the BoP originally dealt with. Star Cruiser, Assault Cruiser, Advanced Escort (non-MVAM), Fleet Escort, they are still just as before.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
03-23-2011, 07:56 AM
you know, normally when I get SS, I really get SS.
I never die from it but I am am left wondering what I should do?
I have Science teams available but fear that if I science team myself, it won't work so I just wait until it expires.
SS does what it intends to do....confuse me.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
03-23-2011, 08:21 AM
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle-Phoenix View Post
Give me a fed escort with uni-stations, battlecloak, good turnrate, ill **** on the HP loss cause i would be able to keep my shields up forever(i could use EMPTS3+TSS3),
Your Hegh build that I can configure to do this would be;
Commander: EPTS1 ET 2 EPTS3 A2Sif3
LTC: HE1 PH2 TSS3
LT: TT1 CRF1
LT: BO1 THY2
Survivibilty build really, but not deadly enough to kill quickly unless one is a TAC toon, even then the damage would be subpar.

The best I could think on the fly and the rank three skills all have to be iether trained by a Captain or a BOff bought that already has them. Very pricey to do and not a reliable thing that one can expect to do easily.

The same EPTS3/A2Sif3/TSS3 combo is possible on the;
Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit (COM:SCI / LTC:ENG)
D'Kyr Science vessel (COM:SCI /LTC:ENG)

So rejoice, the feds have two vessels that can load the OP BoP (TSS3/EPTS3/A2sif3) combo that makes the single Hegh BoP so deadly? Are you not happy for a 2 to 1 adavantage the fed have?

Quote:
Or i could spam psw+ max skilled cpb3 and pwn the enemy while he is tunned for 4 sec. if he survive?
This build would look something like;
COM: PH1 TSS2 PSW1 CPB3
LTC: THY1 BO2 CRF2
LT : ET1 EPTS2
LT: TT1 CRF1

A stun build for the BoP, Good in combat but weak damage on one's on, hence the reason it attempts to stun first then kill.

Also possible on these vessels;
Long Range Science vessel
Reconnaissance Science Vessel
Deep Space Science Vessel
Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit
D'Kyr Science Vessel
Long Range Science Vessel Retrofit

Hence why science is so deadly in PvP at times.


Quote:
i ask my mate to do the same after the resistance going off and stun+cpb him again(or even snb him before stun so no escape from it), then just focusfiring on the stunned dude... Why even stun when a CPB3 can take out 4k shield? 3 such escort could take off any shield and land some nice rapidfire from DHC+some HY torps.
As could any 3 man team made up of 1 science vessel and 2 escorts.

Quote:
Who dont know about it, any BoP can and do this ****.
As can many non-BoP vessels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle-Phoenix View Post
As i said, those are fed sci vessels, what dosnt have near the dmg output of a BoP. EMPTS3+TSS3 was an example.
Stun Build is far from weak. i have tact alt in stun BoP and it works avesome. And sci in stun BoP is same avesome
The Commander BOff slot and the LTC BOff slot are the only slots useable with the builds your propsed that make the BoP OP for (EPTS3 + TSS3) or (CPB3 + PSW2) in your perception, hence the BoP becomes the equivalent of a Science vessel as the damage output will drop due to TAC not being in the COM/LTC BOff slot to accomidate the powers you wish to use.
I never siad iether was weak, just weaker in damage output as compared to a TAC build.
The only bonus to damage the BoP may posses is the fact that they can mount DHC's.
Otherwise everything you pointed out is viable on several existing fed ships already and will function much the same in both damage and now turn as to the single Hegh BoP.
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