Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
03-29-2011, 08:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adml_shake View Post
Just one minor point I saw from a earlier post, Gene was told about the plans for DS9 but never saw any of the production art or designs for the show. And by the time of his death he had mostly been phased out of TNG planning with all the back room politics that went on. After the earlier seasons of TNG he didn't have any input on how the ships looked.
And you heard this from him orlet me guess were one of the people in that back room room. wow thats awesome!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
03-29-2011, 08:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wenexx View Post
Now I know that the assault cruiser is as good as the later ones, like retrofit and star cruiser.

I realy like now the higher escort design because they look realy "bad". But I even don't want to play them because of the fighter style behavor, I like the big ships more but I even think the escort "fighter" are important so this is no critic about them. Just the akira should be anywhere between cruiser and fighter maybe.
I have never seen the Akira as a "!fighter style" type of ship, myself.
For me, the Akira always was some sort of tactical cruiser, heavier than a prometheus but lighter than a Nebula.
Personally i don't understand why some (big) ships have to be forced to fill the role of light, fighter like ships. I mean how big is the Akira class ? Something between 300 and 450 meters?
To be honest i never understood the need to have a escort Class type ships in STO at all, i mean there was only one canon ship class classified as escort, the defiant type. (Which was just a lame try by the producers of DS9 to show how awesome creative they saw themselves )
Forcing other ships (which where clearly not designed to be like that) into that role feels somehow strange to me.

Thank you for reading
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
03-29-2011, 09:13 AM
hmmm actually the akira and defiant where the federations attempt to deal with dangerous matters. While their earlier ships delt with exploration and discovery. the Borg showed the federation they needed muscle. The defiant was made to tackle the borg and the akira was made to help the defiant as well as tackle the dominion, plus sector threats of the future. the akira is also a cheaper ship to make then a galaxy, sovey and nebula. In fact the akira was design for a multi purpose role. this is not my opinion this a direct quote from the creator of the akira peeps

" Alex Jaeger commented on the design in an interview with Star Trek Magazine: "This was my gunship/battlecruiser/aircraft carrier. It has 15 torpedo launchers and two shuttlebays - one in front, with three doors, and one in the back. I really got into it with this one, with the whole idea that the front bay would be the launching bay, and then to return they'd come into the back, because they'd be protected by the rest of the ship."

so there is your akira purpose and design parameters. guess cryptic forgot to follow suit or just felt an escort was easier then a gunship. I do agree having only three styles of ships has made the game a bit dull and not practical in star trek lore.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
03-29-2011, 09:52 AM
I Believe in "Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise" it was said that a 3 nacelled dreadnaught used/required more energy than was gained in speed and stability at high warp velocity. Also in the FASA Enterpise Officers manual it was also said the same of the four nacelled Sargazer..

Personally? IMHO? The Movie NCC-1701-A/TMP Enterprise is the most beautiful thing ever created.. The Galaxy class grew on me however, there were views where it was ugly as sin but in other beauty shots she looks good.. The Intrepid class was just gorgeous...

Even though I personally am not a big fan of the 3 and four nacelle ships some of them look really good.. However I would spend C-Store Credits for a Constellation class without batting an eye.

For now as a Commander I'm enjoying my fleet that has TOS and Movie Constitution class... And I'm totally loving my Excelsior... Dunno why but the warp out of system cinematic never get's old for me..

Meh my 2 cents for what they are worth..
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
03-29-2011, 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UFP-Magnis View Post
And you heard this from him orlet me guess were one of the people in that back room room. wow thats awesome!
Or I read the interviews that people have given over the years about it. Not to mention Gene's own son commenting on what happened more than once. Ass.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
03-29-2011, 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UFP-Magnis View Post
" Alex Jaeger commented on the design in an interview with Star Trek Magazine: "This was my gunship/battlecruiser/aircraft carrier. It has 15 torpedo launchers and two shuttlebays - one in front, with three doors, and one in the back. I really got into it with this one, with the whole idea that the front bay would be the launching bay, and then to return they'd come into the back, because they'd be protected by the rest of the ship.".
This guy disqualifies himself by saying his design is meant as a gunship/battlecruiser/aircraft carrier, it sounds more like the perfect fanboy ship, but not like a serious attempt to design a Starfleet ship.
I think that the producers of "ST: 8" and various DS9 episodes recognized this and made it a medium cruiser which makes much more sense IMHO.

Live long and prosper
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
03-30-2011, 02:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yreodred

This guy disqualifies himself by saying his design is meant as a gunship/battlecruiser/aircraft carrier, it sounds more like the perfect fanboy ship, but not like a serious attempt to design a Starfleet ship.
I think that the producers of "ST: 8" and various DS9 episodes recognized this and made it a medium cruiser which makes much more sense IMHO.

Live long and prosper
A medium cruiser with still a **** load of torpedoes stored onboard for a ship her size



Beside that there are a lof of cryptic designs I think are horrid, just way to many gimmicks, no canon ships was sever seen using gimmicks (kitbases excluded). From the old connie to the Sovy none had parts on it that you could not give some reason for being there.

STO ships just are weird has parts on there that simply cannot fit any purpose, their design is way to complex to ever be handy to mass produce.

Don't even get me started on the fleet escort I can name a dozen strong reasons why their designs are flawed badly.

However this is a game so to each what he or she desires, I will fly what I like you fly what you like.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
04-06-2011, 12:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yreodred

I have never seen the Akira as a "!fighter style" type of ship, myself.
For me, the Akira always was some sort of tactical cruiser, heavier than a prometheus but lighter than a Nebula.
Personally i don't understand why some (big) ships have to be forced to fill the role of light, fighter like ships. I mean how big is the Akira class ? Something between 300 and 450 meters?
To be honest i never understood the need to have a escort Class type ships in STO at all, i mean there was only one canon ship class classified as escort, the defiant type. (Which was just a lame try by the producers of DS9 to show how awesome creative they saw themselves )
Forcing other ships (which where clearly not designed to be like that) into that role feels somehow strange to me.

Thank you for reading
The Federation has never really been truly at war I think that required the use for a fast turn around and heavy firepower. The Cruisers have their beam arrays in order to protect themselves against whatever threats they may encounter. They were to explore not destroy whatever was in front of them. Science ships are self explanatory(SCIENCE!)

But now? Now its like the Federation is being surrounded on all sides by enemies. Klingons, Breen, Remans, Romulans, Borg, Undine. They need a ship that can get in there and blow stuff up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasGideon
I believe they justified the 3 nacelles by saying that each nacelle contains a pair of warp coils. That is splitting it really fine, however.

I had always called them Primary Hull (Saucer in STO) and Secondary Hull. I'm not sure where I picked up that nomenclature, but it seems to be a bit more generic.
@Hull designations: I remember reading that all Ships that have a defined Saucer can separate in an emergency through the use of emergency explosive bolts. The Dreadnought refit and Exploration refit I think are the only ones that can put themselves back together.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
04-11-2011, 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yreodred

To be honest i never understood the need to have a escort Class type ships in STO at all, i mean there was only one canon ship class classified as escort, the defiant type. (Which was just a lame try by the producers of DS9 to show how awesome creative they saw themselves )
Thats so true.... although I like the Defaint basicly.... she was a little to much the "USS Mary Sue".
However, I thing we needet some "fighter class"(in diffenrention to "tanking" or "haling" classes) in the game and escorts do the job....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yreodred

This guy disqualifies himself by saying his design is meant as a gunship/battlecruiser/aircraft carrier, it sounds more like the perfect fanboy ship, but not like a serious attempt to design a Starfleet ship.
I think that the producers of "ST: 8" and various DS9 episodes recognized this and made it a medium cruiser which makes much more sense IMHO.

Live long and prosper
Completly agree here; for all we have seen the Akira was just a random-other-ship. It could be a since ship like the Intrepit or the starship version of an towing-vehicle for all we know from canon. "gunship/battlecruiser/aircraft carier"... is there ANYTHING wannabe-badass left out? Beside the fact that the Akira is simply to SMALL to be any kind of "aircraft carrier". And that "all-warship" idea doesnt fit into the federation. Also die Akira was definitly build BEFORE the dominion war and the development of the call has probably even begun before the first contact with the Dominion. So why should they start building warships out of nowhere? (And the Borg where not the reason, THATS what the Defaint was for, and as far as I know the Defaint project was even canceled before Sikso did dig it up again...)

Still, whats qualifies the designer anyway is the fact that he actually designed many very good star-trek ships, his fanboy-like background-meanings do not change that.
Also, we actually NEED diffrent ship-types in an MMO and the Akira makes a good picture as heavier "escort"-warship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by .dlp.Mercenary
The Federation has never really been truly at war I think that required the use for a fast turn around and heavy firepower. The Cruisers have their beam arrays in order to protect themselves against whatever threats they may encounter. They were to explore not destroy whatever was in front of them. Science ships are self explanatory(SCIENCE!)

But now? Now its like the Federation is being surrounded on all sides by enemies. Klingons, Breen, Remans, Romulans, Borg, Undine. They need a ship that can get in there and blow stuff up.
The federation was threatened. They were at war with the Klingons before Kithomer (or the Organia accords), and a long time before and after still at the edge of war. They were almost always at the edge of war with the romulans, the tholians, probably the Gorn.... the list goes for ever, it includes every second alien-of-the-week-species that was introduced as "great dangerous empire", and I'm almost sure they were at war with the Cardassians sometimes between TOS and TNG, considering Maxwells and O'briens attitude.
Still they didnt feel the need to bring up a large scaled war-fleet at costs of the scientific missions. So... that much didnt change.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
04-11-2011, 03:22 PM
As a developer of a Star Trek MMO, i would have broken up the rule of Healer, Tank and Damage dealer and adapt it more to Star Trek.
I would have given the Federation mainly Science Ships, light Cruisers and heavy Cruisers, and the Defiant as a retrofit.
The Klingon Empire would have gotten light Escorts, heavy Escorts and Cruisers, and maybe one science ship class as balance for the Federation one Escort class.
Here's just a rough draft how i would have arranged Starships in STO.
(sorry for my lack of knowledge about klingon ships)



Federation:
  • Science ships:
    Virtually the same type of ships as we have them right now, but slightly more Hull and Shield points.
    Examples:
    Nebula, More shield and Hull Hitpoint than the other Science Ships
    Intrepid, Enhanced Science Powers
    Luna Class, More Firepower than the other Science Ships

  • Light Cruisers:
    Comparable to the Cruisers we have now in the game but higher Maneuverability (like the Intrepid we have in the Game right now), and slightly less Hull and shields (but higher Shield Regeneration). Firepower like a Star Cruiser we have in STO.
    Basicly more maneuverable and quick ships for more action oriented style of play.
    Examples:
    Excelsior, Slightly more science abilities than the other Light Cruisers.
    Prometheus, MVAM Mode for more DPS in exchange for Survivability
    Akira Class, More Hull and Shiels Points than the other Light Cruisers.

  • Heavy Cruisers:
    Higher Hull and Shield Hitpoints than the Cruisers we have in the Game, firepower like the T5 Excelsior has, but Maneuverability like the Galaxy has in STO right now.
    Basicly slow but heavy and hard hitting ships, more fitting for a tactical/strategical minded style of play.
    Examples:
    Galaxy, More shield and Hull Hitpoint than the other heavy Cruisers
    Star Cruiser, Slightly more science abilities than the other heavy Cruisers.
    Assault Cruiser, More Firepower than the other heavy Cruisers.



The Klingon Empire:
  • Light Escorts:
    These light but fast ships have low firepower and low hull and shield points, but their advantage lies not in dominating the battlefield alone. They come in Packs of 4-5 (at General level), which means that you get additional pet ships.
    Examples:
    Bird of prey, with every 2-3 ranks you do ascent, you get one pet ship more.

  • Heavy Escorts:
    These more sturdier ships have more hull and shield points as well as slightly more firepower than a small pack of birds of prey, but still one of those ships couldn't stand toe on toe with a negh'var Battleship, so you get one additional pet ship at captain rank.
    Examples:
    D7, Raptor

  • Cruisers: These ships are the heaviest ships the Klingon Empire has to offer, they are nearly as sturdy than Federation Heavy Cruisers but they have slightly more firepower.
    Examples:
    Vor'cha: slightly less hull points, but more maneuverable
    Negh Va: More Hull points, but less maneuverable.
In General i would enhance the survivability of all ships about 200%, reduce some too exaggerated effects like like Tractor beam repulsors for example, all with the goal in mind to make battles more strategic and less Dog fight style.


Ok what do you guys think about that, is it complete nonsense, or something to start working with?



Live long and prosper.
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