Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
03-25-2011, 09:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by H.Ramone
or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9EhPunI6xg

actually some feds deserve to be spawn camped. there are typically 2 ways how this happens:

1. they fly into the center and die so horribly fast that the match moves more and more to their spawn point
2. they stay at their spawn point and die horribly fast.

with a bit of teamwork and proper builds this would not happen. it's not that these matches would be better if they were not spawn camped, it would just take a bit longer with the same result.
Well.....if they dont move......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMenB9Ywh2Q
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
03-25-2011, 10:13 AM
For me I think the issue is the biggest in the Kerrat system (spawn point is the same for both factions). Just let everyone spawn fly their separate ways AND then engage.

In regular PVP maps if you actually take the effort to fly to the other spawn point and just camp it cmon whats the honor in that (AND honor being for both factions)?

Play the maps the way they were designed to play. Actually the most fun I had in a long time was when FED and Klingon joined up together in the Kerrat system and just unleashed on the Borg. That was fun. AND not one person died or was shot at when they spawned. It was such a relief.

Those that go out of their way to get those easy spawn kills shame on you. All you are doing is hurting yourselves by making people get frustrated and leave. If they leave for good, guess what Cryptic has no finances coming in. So no new content, no new missions, and heaven forbid close the doors someday.

I go as far as if someone is trying to do something (Ill use Kerrat system again as an example) for example scan a node and the borg are shooting them. Im not going to swoop in and scan under their noses. Ill back em up, get the borg off their butt so that they can scan it. And I move on. Its a game, and if you make if fun for everyone, it will last a lot longer and everyone WINS.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
03-26-2011, 02:54 PM
Agreed

I'd also like to add that I think Feds lack of team work is hilarious, which is one of the main reasons why I hardly play my feds anymore for PvP.

The lack of communication, no support for the escorts, they're all built to fight as solo ships. Some KDF players might get mad at me for saying this, but Feds, we win so much because you leave your weakest ships out in the open to be destroyed instantly - The number one thing we do is go for your escorts because we know how weak they are and they more than likely don't have anyone to support them. That is actually common knowledge to all KDF players, no joke, every match joining a random team, the conversation that happens amongst klinks is...

Klingon 1: Escorts first?
Klingon 2: you bet

*5 seconds later, after winning 15 to 2*

Klingon 1: good job team

Hell, I remember one time playing my Tac in an escort, I was down to 35% heal, my team mates were almost at full health, but in the corner of my screen I caught a cruiser healing ANOTHER cruiser that barely had any damage. this isn't just the eng and sci's fault though as I've noticed some escorts will go flying off on their own away from their team mates, leaving zero chance to being healed by a team mate and leaving them as an easy target to be destroyed in the matter of seconds - and this happens A LOT.

You know what else is hilarious? When we have 3 BoPs blowing up all your ships but you guys are firing at our tanks. This doesn't happen in just FvK though, this also happens in FvF. I've found myself gradually getting a migraine when I'm shooting at an escort but all my team mates are either haviong 1v1 fights themselves or targetting an eng in a cruiser.

I hate playing a tac in an escort, not because they suck, but because they can't take the damage of multiple ships coming at them and I rarely get any support playing them. I've played several matches against a sci and tac duo with my KDF toon, and I swear they were almost invincible. I didn't want them nerfed, in fact, I admired them. i admired the arrangement they had, they understood they're roles and how they coulld be awesome. Only time we killed one or the other is if we all teamed up on one or the other, and even that took a while. But in most cases? Your escorts are far too easy to kill, and it's not because they need to be beefed up, it's because they don't get the support that they should.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
03-28-2011, 06:24 PM
Spawn camping only happens to people who allow it or invite it. The fact any group of people are so weak or clueless that they cannot get their stuff together before the other side does, does not engender them any sympathy or mercy. If you believe it does, stop playing pvp, we don't need you. There is plenty of pve action that fits your playstyle.

It is also not your class that enables you to be a healer, it is your ship. The fact escort drivers are regularly clueless how to survive focus fire and let themselves be killed in that manner says something about ESCORT drivers, not their teammates. There is also two schools of strategy on tacs,,,one before feds cloak and one when they do. If you do not know how to play an escort without a cloak put on a cruiser until you learn how to play by observation of get a cloak.

Typical Fed PUG escort : "Help me, help me,I have 'always' depended upon the healing kindness of strangers! Help meh, help meh!"

Win : HAHA You losers. Look at me top of the damage charts.Woohoo. I'm awesome.
Lose : You guy are here to heal me. I'm the DPS ...morons. HEal me next time if you don't want me suiciding again.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
03-29-2011, 08:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_484
............
A lot of this is due to "untargeted" heals being used.
Many Cruisers (fedside) seem to just use the abilities without attempting to use it on someone in particular. The heal just shoots out across space helping the first closer player of that team it encounters.

I actually designed a BoP at one point that used this tactic exclusively in close combat situations. Whilst burning down foes, free heals for all in close quarters with me.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
03-29-2011, 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_484
Agreed

I'd also like to add that I think Feds lack of team work is hilarious, which is one of the main reasons why I hardly play my feds anymore for PvP.

The lack of communication, no support for the escorts, they're all built to fight as solo ships. Some KDF players might get mad at me for saying this, but Feds, we win so much because you leave your weakest ships out in the open to be destroyed instantly - The number one thing we do is go for your escorts because we know how weak they are and they more than likely don't have anyone to support them. That is actually common knowledge to all KDF players, no joke, every match joining a random team, the conversation that happens amongst klinks is...

Klingon 1: Escorts first?
Klingon 2: you bet

*5 seconds later, after winning 15 to 2*

Klingon 1: good job team

Hell, I remember one time playing my Tac in an escort, I was down to 35% heal, my team mates were almost at full health, but in the corner of my screen I caught a cruiser healing ANOTHER cruiser that barely had any damage. this isn't just the eng and sci's fault though as I've noticed some escorts will go flying off on their own away from their team mates, leaving zero chance to being healed by a team mate and leaving them as an easy target to be destroyed in the matter of seconds - and this happens A LOT.

You know what else is hilarious? When we have 3 BoPs blowing up all your ships but you guys are firing at our tanks. This doesn't happen in just FvK though, this also happens in FvF. I've found myself gradually getting a migraine when I'm shooting at an escort but all my team mates are either haviong 1v1 fights themselves or targetting an eng in a cruiser.

I hate playing a tac in an escort, not because they suck, but because they can't take the damage of multiple ships coming at them and I rarely get any support playing them. I've played several matches against a sci and tac duo with my KDF toon, and I swear they were almost invincible. I didn't want them nerfed, in fact, I admired them. i admired the arrangement they had, they understood they're roles and how they coulld be awesome. Only time we killed one or the other is if we all teamed up on one or the other, and even that took a while. But in most cases? Your escorts are far too easy to kill, and it's not because they need to be beefed up, it's because they don't get the support that they should.
You forgot the Galaxy X.....we will take on a Galaxy X before an escort,cuz they pop so fast.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
03-29-2011, 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHARKFORCE View Post
You forgot the Galaxy X.....we will take on a Galaxy X before an escort,cuz they pop so fast.
They don't pop as easily ever since they were buffed a few weeks back. Now, one of two things happens: 1, they take slightly longer to pop, or 2, the captain has turned it into a tank - especially with an escort or two on its tail, thanks to that fourth aft weapon slot.

Last night in Ker'rat, one of my fellow feds in a Galaxy-X successfully tanked while running from four BoPs. It went on for over five minutes (I think) until enough klinks were dead or disengaging under battle cloak. While I did eventually find her and helped with some nice hit & runs with my def-R, it was still damn impressive and a thing of beauty.

So, it basically depends upon the captain. If they perhaps just bought the ship or don't have much PvP experience, they'll pop a little slower than an escort. If the captain is an engineer with appropriate Boff powers, they can withstand an onslaught.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
03-29-2011, 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cattivo80 View Post
They don't pop as easily ever since they were buffed a few weeks back. Now, one of two things happens: 1, they take slightly longer to pop, or 2, the captain has turned it into a tank - especially with an escort or two on its tail, thanks to that fourth aft weapon slot.

Last night in Ker'rat, one of my fellow feds in a Galaxy-X successfully tanked while running from four BoPs. It went on for over five minutes (I think) until enough klinks were dead or disengaging under battle cloak. While I did eventually find her and helped with some nice hit & runs with my def-R, it was still damn impressive and a thing of beauty.

So, it basically depends upon the captain. If they perhaps just bought the ship or don't have much PvP experience, they'll pop a little slower than an escort. If the captain is an engineer with appropriate Boff powers, they can withstand an onslaught.
The funny thing is too hear testimonals such as yours and yet the a thread for even more buffs exists still.
It sounds like an excellent vessel, as it was meant to be.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39 Death by Auto-Assist
03-29-2011, 10:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
A lot of this is due to "untargeted" heals being used. Many Cruisers (fedside) seem to just use the abilities without attempting to use it on someone in particular. The heal just shoots out across space helping the first closer player of that team it encounters.
Some of this is probably from "Auto-assist Target" being on by default. The default targeting seem designed to have players tossing away abilities--especially abilities they wanted to use on themselves. Who needs "Scramble Sensors" with defaults like these?

Slightly OT, I wish there were an explicit "target assist" keybind. I also wish the teammate keybinds worked for my bridge officers in PVE.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
03-29-2011, 10:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matteo716 View Post
i feel that these 2 simple solutions would fix the "spawn camping" issue: auto team when entering the map, full power when respawning.
These sound reasonable. I'd consider adding some temporary damage immunity at spawn like when ships decloak, too. Auto-teaming or a faction zone chat channel would help to speed up the teaming process. Feds take longer to get organized (for various reasons), and they don't have the luxury of organizing while cloaked.

There also seems to be more slow-to-join instances. I've lingered at the first spawn uncomfortably long when there's only two other ships, trading the risk of being spawn camped for that of abandoning a late joiner as an easy kill.

I've had enough debate at the start to consider writing a macro to refute the occasional argument at the start about moving away from the spawn point. Sitting at the spawn point while explaining why sitting at the spawn point is a bad idea leads to the same conclusion.
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