Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 101
03-30-2011, 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
So the question is how close is too close? We obviously cant do much customizing of the face in the current Foundry, so are these acceptable depictions of Kirk, Spock, and Bones without violating actor likenesses?

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/c...s/closeups.jpg

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/c...s/fullview.jpg

It should be noted that all 3 of those NPCs have the exact same face, just different eyebrows and hairstyles(and ears for Spock).
Basically this whole thread comes down to this post by TheGrandNagus which we still haven't gotten an answer for.

Can we use those images he generated in the foundry and call them Kirk, Spock, Bones? I believe they are representative of the characters while not infringing on actor-likeness. So my interpretation of the EULA is that something like this is ok.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 102
03-30-2011, 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutaris
Do not use any names previously used in any form of Trek. = Don't use any space station, planet, phenomenon, race or whatever used in Star Trek before.
I think that you're misinterpreting there. I take it that 'names' refers to _character names_ rather than the names of planets, space stations, etc.

Even given that it's still better to bring your own ideas into the game rather than exploiting somethign that someone else has done.

After all if I were to take the characters from your Foundry mission and make them go against their established character in my Foundry mission I'm sure you'd be upset. Just like the owners of the well known copyright characters would be.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 103
03-30-2011, 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by robingbrown View Post
I think that you're misinterpreting there. I take it that 'names' refers to _character names_ rather than the names of planets, space stations, etc.
The EULA specifically states we MAY use character names from TV shows and movies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robingbrown View Post
Even given that it's still better to bring your own ideas into the game rather than exploiting somethign that someone else has done.
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...55#post3462255
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 104
03-30-2011, 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
The EULA specifically states we MAY use character names from TV shows and movies.
Yes, names, not likenesses; as in we can't make a character likeness of Spock or Kirk, we can only mention their names. Why is the meaning of the term "character likeness" so hard to understand? We can use the names in dialog, but we can't make NPC characters of them. Is that really so hard to get?

@TheGrandNagus - You know, we all saw it the first dozen times you linked back to that same post of yours, and there are still people that disagree with that interpretation; bludgeoning us over and over again with that same post doesn't change that we disagree with your interpretation; it just borders on harassment. We get your point; move on. And, honestly, I disagree with your assesment; were all telling Trek stories, but the Foundry was for us to tell OUR Trek stories; not more of Kirks or Picards or Siskos. Especially when the stories require those characters to interact with us; would you really be ok if someone made a game character that looked exactly like you & used your name but you never got asked permission & get paid nothing for it? Most actors have a huge issue with that, especially as their faces & likenesses are what make them their living.

Frankly, it says we're not allowed to make likenesses of the characters, period. Those characters are essentially made who they are by the actors that the likenesses are based on. Making them look like different people makes them NOT the same characters; that's why that is ok to do that.

Why insist on walking a fine line & pushing that limitation as far as you can push when it will not only make Cryptic's job harder by giving them reason to "police" the Foundry entries much more closely, when one could simply just not push it & not use those characters directly? Are people so limited in their storytelling that they have to moan and whine when they can't use the 100 (give or take) characters already established instead of just create new ones of the trillions of unnamed characters existing in the Star Trek timeline?

EDIT: There are some ship names & locations that might be considered copyrighted; I think Starfleet Academy was one of these. I'd like it if Cryptic could give us a list of specific locations that do fall under the "please don't use" stuff. For the most part, though, I think most locations are ok to use.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 105
03-30-2011, 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WishStone
If it is just referencing - go ahead.
For example: We had 39 ships lost at 359. Out of these only a few were mentioned. Just make it one of the unmentioned ships. There should be a number that were not there which you can name and fashion yourself.
You could also, for example, get orders from Admiral Hansen - but instead of having Hansen directly involved, just have your BO report that you have received new orders from Hansen. Chances are he did not confer with everyone as much as with Riker - Riker was a special case in this combat. That he just shot out orders and expected people to fellow them would make sense.

That's very much what I meant with 'make it your own'. Do feel free to use Bajor; the Wormhole; Vulcan, Earth... but when you do, make sure you do not use known people from it except for perhaps mentioning them.

(On a totally different note on this:
It is very, very hard to actually write about a character and make them appear known and real. Even if you read the Trek novels or watch specific movies - you may find characters behave 'odd' or 'not feel right'. Someone trying to immerse themselves can be put off and get angry even. If you make your own set of characters and behaviour for them however, you can really shine!)
But referencing to characters you (Cryptic) have put in to the game and use their likeness, such as Admiral Quinn etc, is that allowed?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 106
03-30-2011, 04:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TavisMacRaith View Post
We can use the names in dialog, but we can't make NPC characters of them. Is that really so hard to get?
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Stormshade specifically said we can use characters(not just character names) from the shows, they simply cannot look like the actor who played them. Until you understand that, you will always be wrong. But once you do actually understand that, then the question becomes how different does the character have to look to NOT look like the actor who played them. That is the question of this thread, which you do not seem to get.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 107
03-30-2011, 05:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simale
But referencing to characters you (Cryptic) have put in to the game and use their likeness, such as Admiral Quinn etc, is that allowed?
Let me find out.
*Edit: Talked to Devs and Stormy; he has the answers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 108
03-30-2011, 05:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Stormshade specifically said we can use characters(not just character names) from the shows, they simply cannot look like the actor who played them. Until you understand that, you will always be wrong. But once you do actually understand that, then the question becomes how different does the character have to look to NOT look like the actor who played them. That is the question of this thread, which you do not seem to get.
Where did I state this, and in what sentence precisely (I'm sorry I honestly don't remember.)? Do you have a quote anywhere?

On this topic, right now, I would ask you a different question:

If you do use Kirk/Picard/Sisko/<insert your favorite character here> and have them physically appear in your mission, and in order to avoid likeness issues your version of Captain <fill in the blank> looks more like Urkel from Family Matters than who you say it is, is it really that character?

Considering all the gray areas here, I would honestly recommend that you do not have any characters from other Star Trek series, books, games, etc. physically appear in the content you create using The Foundry. It's fine to make reference from them, or give them a nod, however, having them physically appear can cause issues.

As far as Admiral Quinn, and other characters which already in STO, I've been told that you may reference them, but that we prefer you not use their appearance in your works as well. I've also had it confirmed that we will not be allowing players to use NPC mission givers that currently exist in-game and are tied to Cryptic made missions, to also be available for use in UGC missions as well.

Thanks,

Stormshade
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 109
03-30-2011, 05:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormShade
As far as Admiral Quinn, and other characters which already in STO, I've been told that you may reference them, but that we prefer you not use their appearance in your works as well. I've also had it confirmed that we will not be allowing players to use NPC mission givers that currently exist in-game and are tied to Cryptic made missions, to also be available for use in UGC missions as well.

Thanks,

Stormshade
Considering this bit would it be possible for Cryptic to make two or three NPCs that anyone could use to give missions in the foundry? Just to make things a lil consistent instead of having a 1000 different fleet admirals?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 110
03-30-2011, 05:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormShade
Where did I state this, and in what sentence precisely (I'm sorry I honestly don't remember.)? Do you have a quote anywhere?
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...22&postcount=2


Quote:
Originally Posted by StormShade
Everything else
Well, if people do, generic caucasian man in a TOS uniform, is that too Kirk?

I think thats the general question.


I mean, there are a lot of people who want to use these characters in some capacity for obvious reasons. Such as emotional connection. Would the Devidian series have been as good with generic engineer and generic doctor?

Personally, I want to make a series explaining the MU from DS9 to STO. To do that, without any previously established characters would not only be pretty bland but kinda hard.
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