Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 111
03-30-2011, 06:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormShade
Where did I state this, and in what sentence precisely (I'm sorry I honestly don't remember.)? Do you have a quote anywhere?
Sure thing:

Quote:
Originally Posted by StormShade
If you're referring to the John DeLancey Q most often seen on the Television show, we will likely not be making the assets for his costume available. Partially due to likeness rights.

However, you are free to reference that particular Q, or say that a different looking person is that Q (It's Q... if he wants to look like an Orion Slave Girl, or a Horta for a few decades, he is capable...) in order to tell your story.

Thanks,

Stormshade
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...22&postcount=2

Note that in the highlighted section you say we can use the specific "Q" character from the shows, we just have to give him a different appearance than the Delancey one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StormShade
On this topic, right now, I would ask you a different question:

If you do use Kirk/Picard/Sisko/<insert your favorite character here> and have them physically appear in your mission, and in order to avoid likeness issues your version of Captain <fill in the blank> looks more like Urkel from Family Matters than who you say it is, is it really that character?
According to your quote above, yes, it really is. And TBH, Chris Pine does not really look like a young version of William Shatner, even though they are playing the same character. So actual Trek canon backs up the same character looking differently.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 112
03-30-2011, 07:20 PM
Well, it looks like I've made a mistake.

I'm sorry guys, however, my statement there is incorrect. I've been informed that we're not allowing the appearance of characters from the shows in The Foundry. Likeness/copyright issues make this very difficult to allow, and we need to go with the, "Reference is ok, physical appearance is not ok," in order to comply with the rules we're being given.

I'm sorry to have mislead you all, and I'll go back and edit that post so I don't confuse anyone else.

Thanks for understanding,

Stormshade
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 113
03-30-2011, 07:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormShade
Well, it looks like I've made a mistake.

I'm sorry guys, however, my statement there is incorrect. I've been informed that we're not allowing the appearance of characters from the shows in The Foundry. Likeness/copyright issues make this very difficult to allow, and we need to go with the, "Reference is ok, physical appearance is not ok," in order to comply with the rules we're being given.

I'm sorry to have mislead you all, and I'll go back and edit that post so I don't confuse anyone else.

Thanks for understanding,

Stormshade
Not a problem. The whole point of this thread was to find out exactly what was allowed, and as of your post that has now been done. Due to your previous post(which was just a mistake), there was conflicting information out there, so thanks for settling the matter. However, you need to alter the wording of the EULA to specifically state that not only can we not use actor likenesses, we cannot make ANY version of canon characters, because it does not currently say that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 114
03-30-2011, 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormShade
Well, it looks like I've made a mistake.

I'm sorry guys, however, my statement there is incorrect. I've been informed that we're not allowing the appearance of characters from the shows in The Foundry. Likeness/copyright issues make this very difficult to allow, and we need to go with the, "Reference is ok, physical appearance is not ok," in order to comply with the rules we're being given.

I'm sorry to have mislead you all, and I'll go back and edit that post so I don't confuse anyone else.

Thanks for understanding,

Stormshade
Wait, so can we do it like you guys did with "Past Imperfect" where Spock was talking but you could not see him? Or does that fall under the "don't use the character at all"?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 115
03-30-2011, 07:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuskin
Wait, so can we do it like you guys did with "Past Imperfect" where Spock was talking but you could not see him? Or does that fall under the "don't use the character at all"?
I'm pretty sure that that involves likeness issues in that some likeness of how the character speaks or something like that is involved.

I think the reference might be your science officer saying hey, this reminds me of the Picard maneuver or something of that nature.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 116
03-30-2011, 07:54 PM
City of Heroes' UGC allows players to create missions given by anyone in the game. Why not STO? People understand that the Foundry is separate from "real" content. That sounds a lot like WB not allowing actors to be in different versions of their films because it would confuse people or cause continuity issues. Give the players a little credit, eh? I can understand wanting to save them for your own, in house stuff, or something, but really, isn't the UGC about having fun, expanding the game world?

------- A separate point here -------

With all these limitations, you're limiting fun. I'm sure there's at least one terrific author out there who would like to create a time travel mission to their favorite series. I suppose that if they're so great, they can make their own, original mission without using likenesses, but even if they do that, they're still going to want to see their favorite characters in the flesh. I realize nothing can happen until some sort of complicated legal nonsense is worked out, but if whoever's in charge of the current books can use all the major characters, surely Cryptic can work something out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuskin
Wait, so can we do it like you guys did with "Past Imperfect" where Spock was talking but you could not see him? Or does that fall under the "don't use the character at all"?
Good question!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 117
03-30-2011, 08:11 PM
Thanks for the various clarifications StormShade.

However, if you could clarify one last thing, I asked you a while back during the Foundry Tribble beta what the rule was with use of ships and their proper names (for example, if we wanted to have a time travel episode include the Enterprise B or D?) but I don't think you got back to us (or if you did, I missed it, sorry!)

http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...4&postcount=15
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 118
03-30-2011, 08:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuskin
Wait, so can we do it like you guys did with "Past Imperfect" where Spock was talking but you could not see him? Or does that fall under the "don't use the character at all"?
I'm of the impression that this is perfectly acceptable, because there is no "likeness" involved at all. I wouldn't try to abuse it, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RetroX View Post
Considering this bit would it be possible for Cryptic to make two or three NPCs that anyone could use to give missions in the foundry? Just to make things a lil consistent instead of having a 1000 different fleet admirals?
They already did exactly this. There are a number of named NPCs on ESD that are available as Foundry contacts right now, Commander Futagami being the highest ranking one right now. It's a bit annoying that the highest ranked is still very low in comparison to most of the player base, but it works.

EDIT: There's a Captain Ford as well, it appears. Still, lower rank than most players.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 119
03-30-2011, 09:17 PM
Thanks for the clarification StormShade. Your response should save a lot or hours in rewriting to remove characters from missions that can't be there. It's disappointing but I get exactly why the policy has to be in place.

That said, I second the notion that a similar statement should not only be updated into the EULA, but also prominently posted in as many places on the forums as possible to get the word out.

Regardless, I have no doubt that you're going to have cases where folks just don't read the given documentation and are angry when their Foundry content is flagged for it after hours spent creating it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 120
03-30-2011, 10:24 PM
No offense, Stormshade, but I don't see an apology as being needed at all; you were pretty clear in what you said & the way I see it, you weren't "wrong" at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StormShade
If you're referring to the John DeLancey Q most often seen on the Television show, we will likely not be making the assets for his costume available. Partially due to likeness rights.

However, you are free to reference that particular Q, or say that a different looking person is that Q (It's Q... if he wants to look like an Orion Slave Girl, or a Horta for a few decades, he is capable...) in order to tell your story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormShade
If you do use Kirk/Picard/Sisko/<insert your favorite character here> and have them physically appear in your mission, and in order to avoid likeness issues your version of Captain <fill in the blank> looks more like Urkel from Family Matters than who you say it is, is it really that character?
Nope, it's not that character. There's only 1 Kirk, only 1 Spock, only 1 Data. Change the likeness, and you change the character.

In your previous example, you used Q. Q isn't a person, Q is more like a species or an inter-dimensional omnipotent organization; sotheoretically there are hundreds of thousands of Q running around the universe. Q is also able to travel through space, time & dimensions, so if he really wanted to, he could mess with every single captain in Starfleet if he so chose. For you to say we can have a Q character that isn't John DeLancey makes a lot of sense & is NOT saying we can make a Kirk or Spock that just doesn't look like Kirk or Spock. There's only one Kirk and one Spock.

Especially when anyone can read the agreement and see it says right in there we're not to make likenesses of known characters; that's why the John DeLancey Q is just as out as Picard or Kirk, but the Q "race" isn't out at all. The only thing you might be guilty of, Stormshade, is choosing Q as an example; which was probably not the best idea to begin with, it seems. I thought people in general would be more than intelligent enough to grasp what you were going with; as intelligent as most people are, especially here on the STO forums (that's NOT sarcasm, btw), this seemed to be just a little beyond the common ability to connect the dots.

Seriously, why is there so much confusion & debate on this subject? It seems so blatantly cut & dry to me.
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