Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 81
04-04-2011, 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavairo
There is not a single boss in this game other than CE that takes 20 minutes to kill.
if you don't count the KA last space part, where you're basically not allowed to kill the enemy before a timer has run out, you can say "Not a single boss that can't be killed in 1 minute..."

Then again, that's because the borg Bosses are borked atm... once they get fixed I'll adjust to 3 minutes... :p

not exactly epic...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 82
04-04-2011, 08:50 PM
I think that the extreme lack of discussion about ground PvP ought to kind of send a message. I have fun with it, but it has a steep learning curve, and generally seems better at lower levels than at cap (even though you are really seeing the same players at lower levels as at cap).

A big part of the problem is that ground PvP plays completely differently from PvE. In PvE, opponents are made "tougher" by giving them more health and shields, so PvE fights tend to drag out. In PvP, good opponents will vaporize you in under 5 seconds if you don't react quickly and decisively. Players don't have much health but they do a ton of damage, so anything a player learns in ground PvE really doesn't apply at all to PvP.

Devs have said a few times that they don't want abilities to do different things in PvE and PvP, but that's really what happens. Hitting an NPC with two exploit shots in a row might not even drop it's shields, but if you do that to a player they die. (Honestly if ground PvE were as quick as ground PvP is, I'd enjoy PvE a *lot* more -- ground PvE is sloooow and even playing on higher difficulties just makes it slower, not tougher.)

Stepping into ground PvP after learning ground PvE is a major shock. It's not the same game at all. It's not even related. It's easier to learn ground PvP if you have no experience with PvE.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 83
04-05-2011, 02:25 AM
Space combat actually has similar problems then ground combat on that, except some things are reserved.

Space Combat against NPCs can be ridiculously fast. One fully buffed CSV, and the enemy frigate group might be dead already. In PvP - you can kill an unprepared and non-reacting player just as fast - but if he is prepared and he does react, you might take minutes to take him down.

I think the greatest problem in this game is that PvP and PvE play so incredibly vastly different. If they played more similar, it would be a lot less likely to find people totally overwhelmed when entering PvP.

My natural inclination is to say that NPCs need to be more agressive and use more defensive buffs, to force the player to deal with those buffs and harden himself against the NPCs attacks. But ,as a heretical thought: Maybe that is a bad idea? Not because the so called "carebears" can't take it, but because the excessive use of powers in PvP tends to remove the game from the source material, with all those flashy effects? What if people like space combat and this game because they are not actually required to use all those effects and have their combats look like a TNG or DS9 episode?
In other words, is Azurian right? :shudder:

Mustrum "What has been thought cannot be unthought" Ridcully
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 84
04-05-2011, 04:11 AM
Whoa whoa whoa whoa...

A dev making multiple posts on the forum and engaging in conversation, offering insight into goings on, and chatting on the OPvP channel?

Something is afoot!!!!

And some people said flailing on the ground and screaming like little children would get us nowhere
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 85
04-05-2011, 09:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artificialx
Whoa whoa whoa whoa...

A dev making multiple posts on the forum and engaging in conversation, offering insight into goings on, and chatting on the OPvP channel?

Something is afoot!!!!

And some people said flailing on the ground and screaming like little children would get us nowhere
I would like to think that the development team in there infinite wisdom suddenly had a realization that there are in fact problems with balance in PVP and therefore decided to address the issues instead of avoiding them and us.:p

Welcome JHeinig, welcome to our little world!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 86
04-05-2011, 10:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakma View Post
I would like to think that the development team in there infinite wisdom suddenly had a realization that there are in fact problems with balance in PVP and therefore decided to address the issues instead of avoiding them and us.:p

Welcome JHeinig, welcome to our little world!
I've been trying for over 9 months now to get them to PvP with us on Holodeck,to get them to play the game like we do......

it finally gave birth to JHeinig.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 87
04-05-2011, 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by inktomi19d View Post
I think that the extreme lack of discussion about ground PvP ought to kind of send a message. I have fun with it, but it has a steep learning curve, and generally seems better at lower levels than at cap (even though you are really seeing the same players at lower levels as at cap).

A big part of the problem is that ground PvP plays completely differently from PvE. In PvE, opponents are made "tougher" by giving them more health and shields, so PvE fights tend to drag out. In PvP, good opponents will vaporize you in under 5 seconds if you don't react quickly and decisively. Players don't have much health but they do a ton of damage, so anything a player learns in ground PvE really doesn't apply at all to PvP.

Devs have said a few times that they don't want abilities to do different things in PvE and PvP, but that's really what happens. Hitting an NPC with two exploit shots in a row might not even drop it's shields, but if you do that to a player they die. (Honestly if ground PvE were as quick as ground PvP is, I'd enjoy PvE a *lot* more -- ground PvE is sloooow and even playing on higher difficulties just makes it slower, not tougher.)

Stepping into ground PvP after learning ground PvE is a major shock. It's not the same game at all. It's not even related. It's easier to learn ground PvP if you have no experience with PvE.
There's even more differences. In most PvE you have customized ground Boff skills. In PvP and some PvE you just have the Captain Kits, so you're more boxed in on what you can do.

FYI, ground normal can be fast at higher levels, but takes specialized builds (such heavy engineer spam teams or heavy buffed melee captain w/a team of exposes and disables which cannot be used in PvP b/c of the lack of customization of captain skills).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 88
04-05-2011, 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHARKFORCE View Post
I've been trying for over 9 months now to get them to PvP with us on Holodeck,to get them to play the game like we do......

it finally gave birth to JHeinig.
As have I numerous times lol, that said no matter what the reason JHeinig has come to these forums and joined us in PVP combat, its a good thing.

Planning out something for input into the game can look really good on paper and even certain instances in reality but some can and do disrupt PVP game play in a negative fashion, and its better to have someone on the Dev team actually PVP and find out first hand how it affects PVP game play dramatically.

I think its also good that he is new to pvp as he does not have any "bad habits" or "set ways" to base his opinions on good core PVP game play.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 89
04-05-2011, 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artificialx
And some people said flailing on the ground and screaming like little children would get us nowhere
Those may be people who were scared are "Flailing on the Ground" would overshadow thiers..........:p

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakma View Post
I think its also good that he is new to pvp as he does not have any "bad habits" or "set ways" to base his opinions on good core PVP game play.
I like that as well, though he may need help in some of the basics that a newer pvper may not know.
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