Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Is running away a good idea?
04-06-2011, 09:20 AM
I'm working on my second mission and I have an idea but I'm not sure how well it would be received so I thought I'd toss it out and get some feedback before adding it to my mission.

My idea is you enter a room of enemies, a room with a LOT of enemies and rather than require you fight them all the mission objective would be to make it to a reach marker, which would then initiate a map transfer.

I don't know of any enemies in the game that you can't sprint away from, and I think it might be kinda cool to be presented with an overwhelming situation that calls for a strategic retreat. Or if you're the type of person who enjoys a monumental challenge you could always try clearing them out before retreating as a type of optional objective.

So what do you guys think, if you were playing a mission and the objective was to sprint away while being chased by a significant number enemies would you think it was cool or lame?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
04-06-2011, 10:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trueheart
I'm working on my second mission and I have an idea but I'm not sure how well it would be received so I thought I'd toss it out and get some feedback before adding it to my mission.

My idea is you enter a room of enemies, a room with a LOT of enemies and rather than require you fight them all the mission objective would be to make it to a reach marker, which would then initiate a map transfer.

I don't know of any enemies in the game that you can't sprint away from, and I think it might be kinda cool to be presented with an overwhelming situation that calls for a strategic retreat. Or if you're the type of person who enjoys a monumental challenge you could always try clearing them out before retreating as a type of optional objective.

So what do you guys think, if you were playing a mission and the objective was to sprint away while being chased by a significant number enemies would you think it was cool or lame?
An interesting idea!

I had a very similar two room (maybe 2 map) idea for the starter project I am working on where part of the mission was:

Get into room A through room B

Rooms on one map with a door between rooms

Room A full of guards
Room B empty of guards - the target room being a safe room and has a 'waypoint just inside door'

Door with force field between rooms

Option 1 - fight guards and die a lot
Option 2 - run through guards to room B with minimal fighting

Either way, force field initial invisible then becomes visible as player enters room B

This would mean (hopefully) that the activated force field would stop enemies getting into room B and fighting!

There are considerations such as BOs following into room B and not fighting and enemies firing through the force field! Both could be eliminated using a second map wich only has room B (identical to first map) I suppose and there would be no need for force field - just a 'waypoint' to trigger map transfer as you suggest!

So yeah! I have giving the multi scenario - stay and fight or run away some thought and may include it in later projects .

As for it being cool or lame? Well I think that depends on how you use it within the story, how you implement the idea of run away or stay and fight - 'Captain, it looks like we are outgunned here' prompt with instructions maybe. Ultimately, you can try it and see! Players will rate the mission and undoubtedly let you know if run away is an option they like - even if the answer is no, you could try the option in another way and another mission to see if you get a different feedback!

I would probably say that having the option to run away or stay and fight could be very cool indeed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
04-06-2011, 10:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trueheart View Post
I'm working on my second mission and I have an idea but I'm not sure how well it would be received so I thought I'd toss it out and get some feedback before adding it to my mission.

My idea is you enter a room of enemies, a room with a LOT of enemies and rather than require you fight them all the mission objective would be to make it to a reach marker, which would then initiate a map transfer.

I don't know of any enemies in the game that you can't sprint away from, and I think it might be kinda cool to be presented with an overwhelming situation that calls for a strategic retreat. Or if you're the type of person who enjoys a monumental challenge you could always try clearing them out before retreating as a type of optional objective.

So what do you guys think, if you were playing a mission and the objective was to sprint away while being chased by a significant number enemies would you think it was cool or lame?
I've done exactly what you describe in my Tribble mission, Project Revava. The sequence is called The Gauntlet and you're supposed to run through it rather than make a stand. The enemies I've put in will kill either the player or the BO's.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
04-06-2011, 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordOfPit View Post
I've done exactly what you describe in my Tribble mission, Project Revava. The sequence is called The Gauntlet and you're supposed to run through it rather than make a stand. The enemies I've put in will kill either the player or the BO's.
Cool, I'll give that a try and get a feel for it. Did you happen to get any feedback specific to that portion of your mission?

I appreciate the comments. One thing I've found is that I end up spending a great deal of time on certain elements of my missions. If I were to do something like this I wouldn't want to waste a bunch of time only to get feedback indicating most players feel running away from enemies doesn't make any sense.

I do agree that it has to be done right. Walking up to a room with 5 or 6 enemies in it and having your BO tell you that you had better get the heck out of dodge is silly. In this mission I plan on making sure the player is presented with an opportunity to engage the maximum number of enemy groups the Foundry will allow. I have this really cool (i think anyway lol) vision in my head and I hope to be able to make it work right.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
04-06-2011, 10:46 AM
I think it's a great idea! Just be VERY VERY CLEAR that retreat is an option, and that killing them all is NOT necessary.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
04-06-2011, 10:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trueheart
Cool, I'll give that a try and get a feel for it. Did you happen to get any feedback specific to that portion of your mission?

I appreciate the comments. One thing I've found is that I end up spending a great deal of time on certain elements of my missions. If I were to do something like this I wouldn't want to waste a bunch of time only to get feedback indicating most players feel running away from enemies doesn't make any sense.

I do agree that it has to be done right. Walking up to a room with 5 or 6 enemies in it and having your BO tell you that you had better get the heck out of dodge is silly. In this mission I plan on making sure the player is presented with an opportunity to engage the maximum number of enemy groups the Foundry will allow. I have this really cool (i think anyway lol) vision in my head and I hope to be able to make it work right.
I agree that a BO telling you to get out of dodge seems silly. However, I think you should consider some prompt to inform the player that your goal is at a location that leads you through lots of enemies. The reason for the prompt is to keep the story going and inform the player. Also, you will need to inform the player that fighting is not the only option or whats the point of this thread? (No badness meant in the question.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
04-06-2011, 11:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trueheart View Post
Did you happen to get any feedback specific to that portion of your mission?
Oh yes I sure did. None of the comments were negative in nature, but I do make a point of explaining to the player what's going on with dialog pop-ups both by the antagonist and BO's to explain how best to play through the sequence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trueheart View Post
If I were to do something like this I wouldn't want to waste a bunch of time only to get feedback indicating most players feel running away from enemies doesn't make any sense.
I thought long and hard before including this sequence in. The only reason I did it was because I had no other way to ensure the player got a sense that the antagonist(s) in question could at least in theory pose a new threat to the Federation!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trueheart View Post
I do agree that it has to be done right. Walking up to a room with 5 or 6 enemies in it and having your BO tell you that you had better get the heck out of dodge is silly.
What I did was to have the antagonist express her wishes for the player to have a glorified death (I expect you to die Mr Bond) after which a BO explains that the goal of the sequence is simply to get to the end of the map, whether by defeating the enemies, or making a run for it, that's left up to the player, of course!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trueheart View Post
In this mission I plan on making sure the player is presented with an opportunity to engage the maximum number of enemy groups the Foundry will allow.
To be honest, I don't think that's a good idea because you'd be asking to have your mission be labeled as a grind mission which could lead to negative opinions solely because of excessive combat that may or may not serve the actual story.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
04-06-2011, 04:41 PM
I'd just be careful to avoid having it so the second the player steps in the room like 5 groups all immediately aggro. On the harder difficulties you could be cut down before you have a chance to do anything. It would be better to have only 2 groups aggro at once, and the others only aggro as you run through the room (or even slightly out of aggro range, but are just there for appearances). Also try to make it so that the player has a chance to see/understand what to do/where to run to, before simply being attacked.

I'd also recommend doing a test publish before finalizing the mission and playing through on elite, because something that seems just fine on normal can end up being nearly impossible on elite. Most people playing on elite will usually be pretty good players, so they can use tricks like sending in the BOs first to aggro, then running through popping hypos, etc, but even so there are limits to everything. Even if you don't care about players on elite, if it does turn out to be nearly impossible, in that case you should at a minimum put a warning on your mission intro so that people know what they are getting into.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
04-06-2011, 05:12 PM
I had the same idea and used it my mission The Trimble Conspiracy. Basically you beam to a very damaged Klingon ship and there are Klingons in random places all over the place but you don't have to engage them. I like the idea because it gives the player like me a more in control feeling.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
04-07-2011, 09:08 AM
I gave this a shot last night, and unfortunately I couldn't get it to work on the scale I wanted.

Here's what I tried:

I had 10 ensign level groups with the spider skin. I placed 1 actor from each group within aggro range at the point where the player would encounter them.

Here's where things went bad. First, I could never get more than about 3-4 groups to aggro on me despite being in the range of 10. Second, those that did aggro on me would refuse to chase me up the slight ramp that was part of the hallway. Third, the enemy AI seems to be unable to cope when you position an actor too close to each other or too close to other objects. All actors had to be positioned so they could run straight down the ramp and I really wanted them to come from all directions in the room and run out the door.

With only getting 15-20 spiders chasing you, it just didn't feel right to flee from them and those that did flee stopped chasing you after a short distance. I still like the idea of fleeing from the enemy, however I'll need to really think through how to make running from a dozen enemies feel like the right thing to do.

Should anyone else manage to get more than 3-4 groups to aggro on the player please drop me a line and let me know what technique you used.
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