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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
04-07-2011, 03:12 PM
Honestly speaking, I think the idea of the original Open Jacket was that it would not have an undershirt under it, that's what the players wanted. And ironically, I think it could have been opened much further if there WAS an undershirt under it. In the spirit of the original request, I do think it's a little of a double standard for the guys to be wearing an undershirt. Although maybe a shirt with a lower neck would be an effective compromise.

Do we assume that the 25th century uniform, because it is made of what appears to be leather, wouldn't normally be worn with an undershirt? The TNG/DS9 era uniforms, though, since they were often seen open, they always have an undershirt, even for females.

I'm thinking this thread isn't in the spirit of the usual arguments for MORE exposure, or at least, it's more equal exposure. Not really what the picture I made up that I was talking about before is about...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
04-07-2011, 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitherow
After saying that twice. I do believe you're missing the point of the original post. It's not an 'outcry', it's a matter of a show of equality. Simply put; if girls can where an open TOS or 2409 open jacket uniform and show a little cleveage, the guys should be able to wear an open 2409 uniform jacket and show some chest. And both sexes should be able to have the option of wearing an undershirt /if they want to/.
Exactly this. I'm all for gender equality, and to have the option for one sex but not the other (particularly what could be considered a gender agnostic design like the "open jacket") just plain irritates me to no end.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
04-07-2011, 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blayyde
Honestly speaking, I think the idea of the original Open Jacket was that it would not have an undershirt under it, that's what the players wanted. And ironically, I think it could have been opened much further if there WAS an undershirt under it. In the spirit of the original request, I do think it's a little of a double standard for the guys to be wearing an undershirt. Although maybe a shirt with a lower neck would be an effective compromise.

Do we assume that the 25th century uniform, because it is made of what appears to be leather, wouldn't normally be worn with an undershirt? The TNG/DS9 era uniforms, though, since they were often seen open, they always have an undershirt, even for females.

I'm thinking this thread isn't in the spirit of the usual arguments for MORE exposure, or at least, it's more equal exposure. Not really what the picture I made up that I was talking about before is about...
Like I said. The original post is aimed at the 2409 open jacket uniforms. Not the 'Bomber Jacket' uniform that you normally see Picard or even Sisko wearing. The males who wear the 2409 open uniforms have an undershirt where as the female characters do not. Find 1 male character and 1 female character wearing an open 2409 uniform top and you'll see where this thread is coming from when it started.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
04-07-2011, 03:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitherow
Like I said. The original post is aimed at the 2409 open jacket uniforms. Not the 'Bomber Jacket' uniform that you normally see Picard or even Sisko wearing. The males who wear the 2409 open uniforms have an undershirt where as the female characters do not. Find 1 male character and 1 female character wearing an open 2409 uniform top and you'll see where this thread is coming from when it started.
Well, if the females WERE wearing an undershirt, then theoretically they could open the 2409 jacket all the way just like the TNG era jackets. Right?

The way I see it, we can reach one of three conclusions:

1) The 2409 uniform policy states that female officers cannot wear an undershirt under their jacket, while male officers must. This really doesn't make any sense.

2) The 2409 uniform policy states that officers may either wear an undershirt or not, but only females may unzip the uniform if they are not wearing an undershirt. (Not beyond "that point", of course) So in this case it's not that the females aren't wearing undershirts, it's that they choose not to unzip it unless they are. Perhaps it's that the uniform is so hot, it's more comfortable to wear it without an undershirt, and there's really no point in unzipping it if not.

3) The uniform policy states that all officers must wear an undershirt, but females have a t-shirt variant with a low neck. Again, they may choose to wear this because it's a cooler option.

Honestly, none of this really makes sense, and personally I would expect to see NEITHER males nor females wearing undershirts, since to me it does like the uniform is too thick for an undershirt. I'd actually prefer to see both open and undershirt options for both male and female, and a t-shirt option for both as well, where the jacket can be open all the way.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
04-07-2011, 04:15 PM
Females with undershirts would be nice; my Sci VA would love a less oppressive uniform but isn't the cleavage type.

Males with no undershirts would be nice; my poor Tac officer cried a little when he couldn't fight in Coliseum with his glorious pecs bulging from his shirt.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
04-07-2011, 04:17 PM
Yay for the moderators moving this thread somewhere totally inappropriate!

The fact that the uniform under discussion is available via the C-store really has zero bearing on the issue.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
04-07-2011, 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulif_Davis
This.

I also have a hard time believing that there's a big outcry for bare hairy man-chests.
hairy or hairless, personally i'd like to see both.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
04-07-2011, 04:21 PM
I still want to see the "Shirtless" top for males. And a couple of hair options, from "Thick" to "None, Oiled." (Oh, Bill.)
I see from the last couple of comments that I am not alone in this.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
04-07-2011, 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulif_Davis
I also have a hard time believing that there's a big outcry for bare hairy man-chests.

Well, I don't think we need shirtless unless we are doing Orions or Risa Swimware, but if we are doing open V collor like the TOS captain's wrap around, a shaved like Kirk, and Hairy like Riker would work. We don't really need all the variations like slightly hairy Spok, or very Sparse Picard. Kirk & then Riker were shirtless the most I think. So one for each of those two would be nice.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
04-07-2011, 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinubabear View Post
Well, I don't think we need shirtless unless we are doing Orions or Risa Swimware, but if we are doing open V collor like the TOS captain's wrap around, a shaved like Kirk, and Hairy like Riker would work. We don't really need all the variations like slightly hairy Spok, or very Sparse Picard. Kirk & then Riker were shirtless the most I think. So one for each of those two would be nice.
Actually, if we're going to go with swimwear, the guys are going to need shorts.
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