Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 751
04-09-2011, 07:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palmera
canada, (and i know this for a fact cause im in the canadian army) has used the rank of Commodore sense it has separated from UK in the 70's. in the 90's the term/rank of commodore in all of canada was lost from its insignia book indicating that canada no longer has used the rank.

there however in our history is showing that anyone to which carried the rank had been swapped over a Rear Admiral's, and for the part seen them as Rear Admiral lower halfs.

US History/Insignia book, to which Canadian Personnel should and have also been trained in shows that the same thing. however there is no date to when US may have changed.

UK history still has it in they books, but it also has been noted that by other nations they are to be referred to as Rear Admirals.

so the given rank of Commodore has been, and is now promptly considered history, and has be combined into Rear Admirals. there are 2 Grades to Rear Admirals. both lower and upper. upper being highest, and neither of them meaning a dam thing, cause a admiral is a admiral.

I do remember one episode now that you said something, it was in TOS onboard the Enterprise, where they had spoken to a Commodore. so i retract my statement there.

Commandant. as you may or may not be aware. the position of commandant, the person in said person was always called commandant John Doe, or Commandant Jane Doe. indicating it, to be a form or rank or other. you dont see people going around saying Police Officer John Doe, you see them calling them Cst. John Doe. giving rank to the person.

you are right thou, there is no prove that SF had gone away with commodore. but given the history to which is presented, Rear Admiral never existed with the rank of commodore. and thou i like the sound of Commodore, does it really matter if we strip the two of these ranks to best suit you and maybe 100 other people?
The rank is still very much in use in the Canadian Navy (for evidence, I will note to you that the current commander of the Naval Reserve is Commodore David Craig).

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dsa-...iographyID=778

There was an extensive and arcane reason for the dropping of Commodore from the US Navy, having something to do with payscales. I'd have to look it up to be sure I explained it correctly, but the end result is that the old one star rank of Commodore is no longer used, and has been replaced by Rear Admiral Lower Half. Admirals holding this rank actually still wear two stars.

In Starfleet, there were several Commodores, as has been pointed out.

Commandant is a position, denoting an officer in a command position, usually at a training facility, such as the Academy. The Commandant could be any sort of senior rank, but is usually an Admiral or General of some variety. The term is also used as a rank in some non-english speaking nations. You would call him or her "Commandant Smith," just as you would say "Doctor Smith."

Oh, and for the record, I did my service in the Canadian Navy (though I didn't rise anywhere near as high as Commodore!).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 752
04-09-2011, 07:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
The rank is still very much in use in the Canadian Navy (for evidence, I will note to you that the current commander of the Naval Reserve is Commodore David Craig).

http://www.navy.forces.gc.ca/cms/12/12_eng.asp

There was an extensive and arcane reason for the dropping of Commodore from the US Navy, having something to do with payscales. I'd have to look it up to be sure I explained it correctly, but the end result is that the old one star rank of Commodore is no longer used, and has been replaced by Rear Admiral Lower Half. Admirals holding this rank actually still wear two stars.

In Starfleet, there were several Commodores, as has been pointed out.

Commandant is a position, denoting an officer in a command position, usually at a training facility, such as the Academy. The Commandant could be any sort of senior rank, but is usually an Admiral or General of some variety. The term is also used as a rank in some non-english speaking nations. You would call him or her "Commandant Smith," just as you would say "Doctor Smith."

Oh, and for the record, I did my service in the Canadian Navy (though I didn't rise anywhere near as high as Commodore!).
interesting. thou in the manual we were all given commodore isnt in it... maybe he liked the sound of it too and cause he is retiring gets to have it as a traditional value.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 753
04-09-2011, 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palmera
In Star Trek lore, the Position/rank of Captain was always given to command the ship. in the TOS Motion pictures, every time Kirk took command of the vessel is had to temporal demote himself to Captain.

so im going to agree with Sophia. they should be some way they can create it that the levels are there with a rank system that fallows ST lore.

and again, ill repeat my self, cause clearly you didnt want to read the later post on Commodores, and went right into bashing me as if its your past time cause you have alot of bad days thinking your in the military or something. i said, Starfleet DID have Commodores at one point in time cause i recalled a episode in TOS. the term/position/rank was never used after that. Wiki can be faned based and if i wanted to right now edit everything you just did to suit my own desires. thus your in a hard case right now with the names of Commodores seeings as none of them served in movies, let alone seen.

as for Commandants. thanking your for re-typing everything i just said. other than the fact that you think i called them commanding officers, just cause someone is a ranking officer of a academy doesnt make them the commanding officer.

and if you were really military there mate, you would know that just about any rank could be a commanding rank. Lieutenants is where it starts in most cases, and end with major's who really are just a ranking officer of the company, and rarely seen as the commanding officer as our nations will never deploy a officer of that rank into the battlefield in terms with our own RoE. i will say this, not all Officer may be allowed to have command. any officer referred to as a "regarded Officer" may not have command as they are assigned to the formation-ed group for special reasons, eg-they a field Art spotter. everyone in the army a spotter spots, and has to follow the command of the ordering officer, and thus cant cant command any form of unit cause he would be commanding himself.

2nd Lt. First Fld. Art reg. Canadian Armed Forces. thank you.
I never made a claim that I was in the military... what I did point out is that Commandant is NOT a rank and nor is Commanding Officer, both are "postions" or "posts" or "appointments"...

whilst wiki maybe easy to subvert... http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/training...adges-of-rank/ for the existance of Commadore...

and an example of Rank and Position as quoted by the MoD...

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/De...ngExercise.htm ...

good luck
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 754
04-09-2011, 09:28 AM
Traditionally the rank of Commodore is granted to the leader of a task force or squadron who is of equal rank to other officers within the group in order to establish chain of command.

So if you have a squadron of 12 ships where the commanding officers consist of 3 Captains, 4 Commanders and 5 Lt. Commanders you would give one Captain the temporary rank of Commodore to denote the fact that his orders supersede those of the other captains.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 755
04-09-2011, 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdSin15 View Post
Traditionally the rank of Commodore is granted to the leader of a task force or squadron who is of equal rank to other officers within the group in order to establish chain of command.

So if you have a squadron of 12 ships where the commanding officers consist of 3 Captains, 4 Commanders and 5 Lt. Commanders you would give one Captain the temporary rank of Commodore to denote the fact that his orders supersede those of the other captains.
You are correct, but, it was atemporary rank, but, became a substantive rank in the Royal Navy in 1996 (i think)...
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 756
04-09-2011, 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamingbadger View Post
I never made a claim that I was in the military... what I did point out is that Commandant is NOT a rank and nor is Commanding Officer, both are "postions" or "posts" or "appointments"...

whilst wiki maybe easy to subvert... http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/training...adges-of-rank/ for the existance of Commadore...

and an example of Rank and Position as quoted by the MoD...

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/De...ngExercise.htm ...

good luck
and all of which is written in all of those sites is saying what im saying mate. either your not understanding what im writing, or you just what to say your right, and that im nothing more than a idiot.

so what im going to say to resolve this is, that we are going to agree on disgreeing with one another based on misinformed infomation.

and the reason why i brought up the you being in the military comment, is cause your coming across as a know-it-all to someone who is forced to know who to salute in the mornings.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 757
04-09-2011, 09:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdSin15 View Post
Traditionally the rank of Commodore is granted to the leader of a task force or squadron who is of equal rank to other officers within the group in order to establish chain of command.

So if you have a squadron of 12 ships where the commanding officers consist of 3 Captains, 4 Commanders and 5 Lt. Commanders you would give one Captain the temporary rank of Commodore to denote the fact that his orders supersede those of the other captains.
you are very correct, once apon a time that did acur, there is something some wheres written in the Chain of Command Doctrine that says this is still practiced today in the event that a battle group needed to be formed at a given time other than port side.

the army does it, naturally they not called commodores thou, and we still call them by given rank, they only just become a NCO/CO to fit the role of command, even thou he/she may not be in actual command, its just to ensure the ranks dont fall apart. if that makes sense.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 758
04-11-2011, 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
I remain in the camp that we should at least have the option of using Commodore instead of Rear Admiral Lower Half. I mean, who wants to be promoted from Rear Admiral to... Rear Admiral...?
Absolutely I concur whole-heartedly !

If not completely changing the Rank title then Commodore should be an option of address.

* Salutes to Starfleet Commodores Matt Decker and Robert Wesley*
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 759
04-11-2011, 02:49 PM
Dear Federation Council,

Until such time as Starfleet Command restores the rank of Commdore and gets rid of Rear Admiral Lower Half, I am defecting to the Klingon Empire and taking my starships and crews with me.

At least there they know how to party.

Respectfully,

-- Former Starfleet Admiral

P.S. ---> I agree with those on the Commodore bandwagon.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 760
04-11-2011, 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonseye View Post
Dear Federation Council,

Until such time as Starfleet Command restores the rank of Commdore and gets rid of Rear Admiral Lower Half, I am defecting to the Klingon Empire and taking my starships and crews with me.

At least there they know how to party.

Respectfully,

-- Former Starfleet Admiral

P.S. ---> I agree with those on the Commodore bandwagon.
you always were a klingon! lol
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