Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 61
04-19-2011, 02:11 PM
From the new tribble patch notes:

Quote:
Ship explosions will now only effect a maximum of 5 targets.
So it appears they are accomplishing what they wanted with a patch and what this thread addresses was already being corrected in a proper manner.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 62
04-19-2011, 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jennjahn View Post
Flat out, I'll ask,

Wishstone, are missions with a focus of acquiring accolade points, a no no?

If they are a no no, shall we report any higher levels we encounter in lower level encounters--DSE, Mylasa, Kassae, Celes, etc?


This is a very good question and needs to be answered asap especially since Cryptic is making up the rules as they go. I would be surprised to find that common practices that have been taking place for well over a year are now a no no with regards to the dse's.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 63
04-19-2011, 02:17 PM
What this thread is actually addressing is clarity on the issue of what constitutes a grind mission, and whether or not a grind mission of *any* form is a legitimate use of the foundry.

Yes, the warp-core-breech gimmick has been shown to be corrected in regards to the explosion, but that still does not draw a clear line on whether or not missions where you hunt down fifty NPC ships that spawn is or is not against the EULA - these are missions that are removed, regardless.

The thread is trying to address what is exactly valid, and what is not, and asking for Cryptic to make a verbal statement about it so that there is not confusion.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 64
04-19-2011, 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiTataki View Post
Yes, the warp-core-breech gimmick has been shown to be corrected in regards to the explosion, but that still does not draw a clear line on whether or not missions where you hunt down fifty NPC ships that spawn is or is not against the EULA - these are missions that are removed, regardless.

The thread is trying to address what is exactly valid, and what is not, and asking for Cryptic to make a verbal statement about it so that there is not confusion.
I doubt that there will ever be an exact definition, because the more detailed the requirements get the easier it will be for someone to do something that is just within the borders set that may still not go along with the spirit they see for using the Foundry.

And do address such issues they would need to constantly change these exact definitions to adjust and in the end that would still make the situation uncertain for people, since there would not be a definition that would stay the same.

I am quite sure Cryptic has looked at the efforts made by their former colleagues at Paragon Studios and how Mission Architect was handled and probably really want to avoid that it ends up in a similar way with the Foundry. Thus they may be less forgiving even if something is not a definite exploit.

That being said, they need certainly find a way to communicate and handle this without making people feel that they may arbitrary get punished for something that people may have put many hours into to create for enjoyment.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 65 my only concern
04-19-2011, 03:49 PM
My only concern is the banning of people from using the Foundry without any warning or something first. Pull the offending mission, form a policy for them, fine. Warn someone then ban them for repeats of the violation, fine. But I don't see anything wrong with a mission where you kill a hundred Hirogen so long as you had to actually fight them. If Cryptic disagrees, fine, but I would hope they don't ban someone for making such a mission without any warning.

The limit on how many things you can blow up with a warp core breach is a good instant fix for some of the worst offenders.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 66
04-19-2011, 04:28 PM
I know that on the forums we're not allowed to speak of administrative action, through tickets, reports, etcetera, etcetera, but if I happen to have a desire to speak of the matter, what exactly are the provisions for doing so?

As in, not asking to reppeal/review the action (which a ticket would be used for), but a discussion with someone (either in an open 'forum' discussion, or in a one-on-one basis) on discussing the particulars and technicalities of something. Is there any sort of provision for this sort of thing?

Posting here because it does relate to the topic of discussion, but as mentioned above, I am not allowed to directly speak of any actions.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 67
04-19-2011, 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiTataki View Post
I know that on the forums we're not allowed to speak of administrative action, through tickets, reports, etcetera, etcetera, but if I happen to have a desire to speak of the matter, what exactly are the provisions for doing so?

As in, not asking to reppeal/review the action (which a ticket would be used for), but a discussion with someone (either in an open 'forum' discussion, or in a one-on-one basis) on discussing the particulars and technicalities of something. Is there any sort of provision for this sort of thing?

Posting here because it does relate to the topic of discussion, but as mentioned above, I am not allowed to directly speak of any actions.
You may do so anywhere but here. So if you want to get someone's email address or messenger information, your free to do so. But Cryptic does not support that type of conversation, so they are not going to provide you a place to do it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 68
04-19-2011, 05:05 PM
Hello everyone,

Thank you for helping me keep this thread open.

First of all I must point out that we will not ever discuss any action taken on any customers account with anyone - except the involved customer. This will also not happen in public but directly; either using a private notification or through the ticketing system. But we cannot give the general public all the details. We cannot tell you for example that someone was banned because they used an exploit that turned their Tribble into an unstoppable attack monster which wiped out all of Qo'noS. We do not want to give people directions on how to break the rules.

This issue was discussed and talked about internally for a few days already and we have worked behind the scenes to fix some of the problems that came with the exploits in the Foundry. We do not announce when we correct some things, as we do not want to give people tips on what rules to go break quickly before the fix is in.

In line with this, we removed a number of missions from the Foundry. Sadly a few of these were republished almost immediately after we removed them. At that time, we chose to remove creation access to some users, whose missions were in violation of Star Trek Online's Terms of Use. We are also working on further corrections to the Foundry tool at this time.

I also understand that many of you have voiced yourself on these missions for some time. Please report missions that you feel go against fair play by being centered on farming / grinding or similar with the report functions in game. When you abort a mission, you will be asked to grade it. You can then choose to review it or to Report a TOU violation. If we would like to request additional clarification, you will be contacted by customer service. However, we cannot go into specifics on this with you through the forums. If CS contacted you, please reach out to them or, if you had problems doing so, to the community team using the ticket system.

We want the Foundry to be used for users to create missions. Set a scenario, create the world anew for yourself. The tool was not created to allow players to level up easier, to have a quicker way to gather Accolades, or similar. If your mission sets this as a goal in any form, we may take action. Please do not create missions that are geared towards boosting of any kind.

Thank you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 69
04-19-2011, 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
You may do so anywhere but here. So if you want to get someone's email address or messenger information, your free to do so. But Cryptic does not support that type of conversation, so they are not going to provide you a place to do it.
I'm actually looking specifically to speak on matters of policy regarding a matter with someone in Cryptic directly. Community involvement would be nice, but I actually have some specifics I'd like to address that deal with the process that, as requested, should not be discussed here.

In regards to the official statement; Well, I can't say I completely agree with everything because it does cover a lot of things that I feel fall on the edge of the line, I understand that it's to prevent people from taking advantage of a little bit of wiggle room turning into something else entirely.

That said, I think it should probably have the notice added somewhere officially to one of the stick-ied threads, such as the FAQ, or have some sort of related commentary attached to the Foundry EULA, or even some sort of notation somewhere in the TOS, or anything official to avoid confusion.

The generic mailers that go out with service reports are understandably generic since they can not possibly be personalized or addressed, but in some cases (such as with these mission designs), better clarity should be brought up.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 70
04-19-2011, 05:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WishStone
Hello everyone,

Thank you for helping me keep this thread open.

First of all I must point out that we will not ever discuss any action taken on any customers account with anyone - except the involved customer. This will also not happen in public but directly; either using a private notification or through the ticketing system. But we cannot give the general public all the details. We cannot tell you for example that someone was banned because they used an exploit that turned their Tribble into an unstoppable attack monster which wiped out all of Qo'noS. We do not want to give people directions on how to break the rules.

This issue was discussed and talked about internally for a few days already and we have worked behind the scenes to fix some of the problems that came with the exploits in the Foundry. We do not announce when we correct some things, as we do not want to give people tips on what rules to go break quickly before the fix is in.

In line with this, we removed a number of missions from the Foundry. Sadly a few of these were republished almost immediately after we removed them. At that time, we chose to remove creation access to some users, who chose to use the tools to create missions which were simply designed to farm Experience points, Accolades or similar. We are also working on further corrections to the Foundry tool at this time.

I also understand that many of you have voiced yourself on these missions for some time. Please report missions that you feel go against fair play by being centered on farming / grinding or similar with the report functions in game. When you abort a mission, you will be asked to grade it. You can then choose to review it or to Report a TOU violation. If we would like to request additional clarification, you will be contacted by customer service. However, we cannot go into specifics on this with you through the forums. If CS contacted you, please reach out to them or, if you had problems doing so, to the community team using the ticket system.

We want the Foundry to be used for users to create missions. Set a scenario, create the world anew for yourself. The tool was not created to allow players to level up easier, to have a quicker way to gather Accolades, or similar. If your mission sets this as a goal in any form, we may take action. Please do not create missions that are geared towards boosting of any kind.

Thank you.
First, just let me say thanks for all of your work on this. I'm very happy this issue is finally being dealt with. That said, I get the feeling that you are not going to actually give us a definition of what is "grinding", because if you do then people will know what they have to do to just barely get outside of that definition. Is that correct? If so, people should just report what they "feel" is wrong, and then the mods will make the call? Either way, you should still add a line to the EULA that prohibits making grind missions, even if it doesnt define what they are. That way you have given people fair warning.
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