Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
04-24-2011, 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commadore_Bob
Captain B4 of the Enterprise.....
Not to re-open this debate but, what the heck... I know some people have trouble with the idea of Data being back but B4 is a hologram now. So even if you don't consider the Captain of the Enterprise to be Data, he's not really B4 either since B4 was removed.

IMHO, Data, B4 and Lore aren't really androids anyway but programs who occupy androids. So, for my money, a backup of Data is Data as much as Spock after STIII was still Spock.

Otherwise, you really have to consider people to be dead when they use a transporter since they get disintegrated and a copy of them gets created at the destination location.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
04-24-2011, 06:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
Not to re-open this debate but, what the heck... I know some people have trouble with the idea of Data being back but B4 is a hologram now. So even if you don't consider the Captain of the Enterprise to be Data, he's not really B4 either since B4 was removed.

IMHO, Data, B4 and Lore aren't really androids anyway but programs who occupy androids. So, for my money, a backup of Data is Data as much as Spock after STIII was still Spock.

Otherwise, you really have to consider people to be dead when they use a transporter since they get disintegrated and a copy of them gets created at the destination location.
I'm not going to reopen the debate. Everybody has their "one issue" with the game and that's mine. After the big dust-up in "The Measure of a Man" about an expert in artificial intelligence not being competent enough to make a valid copy of Data, I find it hard to believe a STARSHIP engineer would be able to successfully copy over Data's "memories" during a simple experiment. Geordi is a smart guy, but he is in essence a nuclear engineer, not a robotics scientist.

This conversation is the reason I'm so against the idea of Data being still alive. What was copied into B4 was the memories. I don't think what was transferred was the "essence." To me, to accept that Data is alive now in B4 means that Maddox was right. Data was a machine and there was nothing about him that was unique. You could just copy his program over into another device and then you'd have another Data. To me, what made Data special was the thought that a machine could have conciseness. Bringing Data back by using a "back-up" copy removes that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
04-24-2011, 06:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
Otherwise, you really have to consider people to be dead when they use a transporter since they get disintegrated and a copy of them gets created at the destination location.
Which is why I don't think I would ever want to use one, IF such technology existed.

Whenever I watch someone on TNG or whatever, holding a precious ancient artifact, and they use the transporter, I always whisper "and now it's worthless".
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
04-24-2011, 06:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PodSix
Which is why I don't think I would ever want to use one, IF such technology existed.

Whenever I watch someone on TNG or whatever, holding a precious ancient artifact, and they use the transporter, I always whisper "and now it's worthless".
To me, I think they messed up the science. What would make more sense is if the transporter works on the quantum physics principle of an object being able to be in two places at once. That would more likely exist in real physics and would not destroy the original every time you transport.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
04-24-2011, 06:32 PM
I can't see through your eyes, I can't think your thoughts. And if you were an exact duplicate of me, the same would be true. . the "i"... that indefinable state of being someone.. that "Cogito Ergo Sum" spark that only "you" experience.. would end on the transporter pad. The lights go out. The end.

And on another transporter pad, an exact copy of you is created, with the memories of being on the transporter pad just as the lights went out for you.

But will "you" be in that mind? will "you" see out of those eyes, and will "you" think those thoughts? or will it be someone who looks just like you, and has all your memories?

No one would notice that "you" didn't come off the transporter pad.. and "you" would no longer exist, to tell anyone.

Forget fears of having your damned molecules spread all over space... The transporter, even when working properly, is the stuff of nightmares.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
04-24-2011, 07:39 PM
I'm sorry, but... this thread went too long without this happening...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
Kira is Kai.
"Wait... what?"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
04-25-2011, 10:50 AM
Since it's Kira, you're not supposed to re-create her in your mission. So unless you are just talking about her, I don't think you can pursue this.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
04-25-2011, 12:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by XR-377 View Post
"Wait... what?"
No joke. She got more religious as the series progressed, despite her tensions with Kai Winn.

Kira's religious beliefs affected many of her relationships, especially making her uncomfortable around Sisko for a good part of the series.

=======

If you don't refer to her as Kira and don't use her likeness (i.e. make her really old and unrecognizable), you might be able to just refer to a "Kai" character without any of the background information.
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