Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 41
04-30-2011, 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
I'd suggest trying to make the area a bit more open so the BOs maybe will not have such pathing problems. The walls you're using at the end there may be causing issues since they don't go together the whole way. There also seems to be a serious issue with the Holodeck door not being seen as solid by the BOs, so at a minimum you should put an invisible wall across there (or several layers of them) to try to stop the BOs from warping through it.

Regarding the borg spawning. In addition to my BOs being MIA, it's not really that fun fighting Borg in close quarters with no way too react. The Assimilated attack is almost certain death when you're playing on elite, and you don't have a real player healing (BO healers are too pathetic to catch it and heal through it properly). The BOs even when pathing correctly are too stupid to back off from the Borg, so starting with them right on top of you only makes matters worse.

What I'd suggest is to expand the corridors to the left and right of the Holodeck and have them turn left and right and continue on for a bit. Space the consoles out along the corridors and have the Borg already beamed in (you can place them so in the event they aren't killed during the part where the player gets the console, they will just be part of the Undine/Borg battle). However, I don't know how hard it is to build on that map, since the ground beneath the courtyard might not be flat which would make lining everything up a nightmare. It might be worthwhile to just use a premade Starship interior (maybe the highly damaged Wargames interior) and simply have the holodeck door act as a map transition to Q'onos Under Siege with the arch.

4) A Bit Too Short?
Overall the mission felt a bit on the short side to me. I could have used another full interior map. I don't know if I missed a lot of optional consoles or something, but I didn't see any that I didn't read. If there were more consoles to access on the bridge you might want to make them flashy so people know they can be used.
Great feedback on the whole. I just wanted to highlight these points.

The invisible wall may be a pretty good idea there and I didn't realize people had BOs walking through the door. (I thought they were somehow appearing right outside automatically.) There not only are no gaps in the walls but they all overlap with eachother's geometry slightly.

I've played this several dozen times and I've never been able to replicate the errors. I wish I could see someone else play the mission. Your feedback is some of the most detailed I've gotten but I've TRIED getting my BOs tangled on geometry or pushing them through the walls/holodeck door and I've never been able to, even trying to do it.

Very astute about the mission being one map short. There was another map planned for main engineering where you seal a warp core breach but I could never get the gimmick of the closing door working like I wanted to. Also had plans for some optional endings but the assets just aren't there for what I had in mind so I decided to save both for future missions.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42
04-30-2011, 01:37 PM
I think my BOs warped around a bit too. I'm not sure the invisible wall will solve the problem for sure, but it's just a suggestion that might help. In the mission I've been working on I've started to make liberal use of invisible walls to counter situations where BOs warp through. It's a very irritating problem in my mission because at several points there's a wall with a force field and you're supposed to assess the situation and then lower it, but the BOs can ruin it by jumping through and aggroing prematurely.

If I have a chance I can try playing through again with a Fraps recording going, and then upload it to Youtube.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43
04-30-2011, 04:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
I think my BOs warped around a bit too. I'm not sure the invisible wall will solve the problem for sure, but it's just a suggestion that might help. In the mission I've been working on I've started to make liberal use of invisible walls to counter situations where BOs warp through. It's a very irritating problem in my mission because at several points there's a wall with a force field and you're supposed to assess the situation and then lower it, but the BOs can ruin it by jumping through and aggroing prematurely.

If I have a chance I can try playing through again with a Fraps recording going, and then upload it to Youtube.
That would be amazing. On the whole, this mission leaves me feeling a lot less ambitious about any future plans for custom terrain... or at least phasing terrain. Still plan for lots of customization but, in the future, I plan to use the details as, well, details more.

Frankly, at this point, I'm starting to hope that choosing away team sizes aren't too far off and I could just retune this one. I'm also curious if it will fix itself if they close the shooting through walls bug.

But a lot of what I want to do just isn't very compatible with BO pathing, apparently. And I'd rather move on to do more missions than get stuck on bug fixes. I'm not abandoning this one but I couldn't handle 8 just like it without making a job out of it.

Oh... And weird question: do you use the keyboard or the mouse to move? I'm wondering if the angles people move and turn at makes a difference here.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
04-30-2011, 04:10 PM
I use my mouse to turn, but my keyboard controls strafing left and right and moving backwards.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
04-30-2011, 04:42 PM
I never strafe. That may be what causes some of the differences in testing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 46
05-15-2011, 03:23 AM
I was able to replicate the issue by running in place against a wall.

I have tried the invisible walls. They seem to mostly work after adjusting the placement.

I also made some cosmetic/lighting changes to Deck 11. They make it look more dramatic, IMHO, although the bloom can be fierce.
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