Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
I was playing a mission today that I really enjoyed up until the last fight where there was a Captain level group, and the Captain happened to be a medic who always healed himself just when we started putting a dent in him. This went on for about 10 mins before I just quit. I really am not sure how to rate a mission like this because I know the type of ground that spawns in random. However, knowing that it is random the author takes a big risk using a Captain level group. How do you rate missions like this?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
05-15-2011, 02:36 PM
I would say rate it favorably. I mean, you were having fun, right? And it's not the author's fault that that particularly tough spawn was generated. I'd just say include a note about it when you go to rate it, advising them to maybe tweak that final encounter a bit.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
05-15-2011, 02:39 PM
Last night I encountered a somewhat similar situation in a Foundry mission.

The 'bad guys' were Mirror Universe Terrans who were threatening P'Jem. After defeating several groups of Terrans in orbit above the planet, my captain and her valiant away team beamed down and proceeded to kick mass quantities of Terran booty...

Until they came to the final group, which consisted of a Captain, several Guards, and a Captain's Woman.

That's when things went... amok.

1. Couldn't defeat the Guards. Every time I got close to taking one out, their shields/health would fully regenerate. Was someone healing them? Were they healing themselves? Couldn't really tell.
2. Targeted the Captain. Whittled him down. Saw the 'disintegrate' animation - and then the Captain was BACK, full shields and health, firing away at my guys, but completely *invisible* except for the title floating above where he should have been. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
3. Targeted the Captain's Woman. Took her out. She came back to life. Took her out again. She came back to life again. Took her out again. She came back to life again.
4. Party wipe.
5. Back into the fray - this time the Terrans were promptly defeated.
6. Diagnosis: wacky bug.

I don't think it was the author's fault. I gave him/her 5 stars for an otherwise excellent mission.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
05-15-2011, 02:44 PM
Dunno. Never had a problem beating any mob on normal. The only time I consider mentioning battle tweaking is when the author places multiple spawns... that, obviously, can be a big issue.

When I get reviews for my missions, I consider feedback based on battle difficulty. As far as I can tell, the only way you know you're doing it right is when half the people say it's too easy and the other half say it's too hard.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
05-15-2011, 02:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GT01 View Post
I would say rate it favorably. I mean, you were having fun, right? And it's not the author's fault that that particularly tough spawn was generated. I'd just say include a note about it when you go to rate it, advising them to maybe tweak that final encounter a bit.
To clarify what I'm really asking: I know there are certain "bugs"(though I'm not sure that term actually applies here) that authors have no control over. My question is do we as authors bear any responsibility for using mechanics that we know are unpredictable and may make our missions randomly unpleasant?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
05-15-2011, 02:54 PM
i personally am quite self aware of using captain level mobs with enemies that have medics. i avoid them. i did make a commander level group with the mirror universe and even though i ripped through them in about 3 minutes, other have complained they are too hard, as they just run into a bad spawn and get more than one medic. i dont want to make it any easier and if someone cant beat a commander spawn then ill just take the bad rating on the chin.

i think this is something cryptic need to fix, but for the moment if i cant complete a mission it gets one star. if you use a captain level mob and you know there is a chance of a medic then its a risk you take and you should be prepared to get bitten for it.

i would probably offer to replay in the text if it gets adjusted though to be fair.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
05-15-2011, 04:10 PM
The alternatives to using higher level mobs that have a chance to spawn captain level medic nonsense would be to wait for Cryptic to release the ground revamp or balance the NPC's out (delaying the production and publishing of the mission), use a lower level NPC group of the same type, or selecting a different NPC type altogether and reskinning them for the desired aesthetic.

Waiting for Cryptic delays your own desired time table if one exists, using a lower level NPC group might make the combat too easy, and reskinning a different NPC type might make break the flow since the group would be using weapons that wouldn't make sense for the NPC's in the first place.

My own choice is to wait for Cryptic to release the ground combat revamp with all it's changes before I get too involved with a mission that will be very ground combat oriented for the simple fact that I don't know how it'll be balanced after the revamp if I make it and publish it now.

So the answer I'd put forth is that it's the author's responsibility to know what the technology can do and being aware of what changes will be coming in the future that would change how their mission is balanced. Course I'd really rather have direct control over what NPC's spawned in any particular group from the get go, and I shake my fist at Cryptic for not allowing me that. Hopefully we'll get that functionality in the future, but for now we as authors need to have that awareness of what our limitations are.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
05-15-2011, 04:29 PM
I guess there is a risk putting in hard enemy groups, but you really shouldn't be having trouble taking down medics on normal mode. Even the captain medic should be doable if you use the game's mechanics. If you don't use exposes and exploits then I suppose it might not be possible. But frankly if that is the case then it seems to me you should go back to the drawing board on your skills/weapon setup.

If you're not using exposes and exploits to the maximum extent then you're not playing the ground game right (and I don't care what other "guides" have been written to the contrary). Medics can't heal through getting exploited for 1000-2000 damage.

Edit: I've run some tests and it seems that Mirror Feds don't seem to spawn actually spawn Commander or Captain medics. They spawn Chief Engineers, Science Officers and Chiefs (who put out insane amounts of damage), but not medics. So, I'll revise my initial statement since I can't vouch for actually killing the Captain Medics. It's possible that given the amount of health the Captains have that it could be difficult or impossible to take them down.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
05-15-2011, 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Revo
i personally am quite self aware of using captain level mobs with enemies that have medics. i avoid them. i did make a commander level group with the mirror universe and even though i ripped through them in about 3 minutes, other have complained they are too hard, as they just run into a bad spawn and get more than one medic. i dont want to make it any easier and if someone cant beat a commander spawn then ill just take the bad rating on the chin.
I definitely agree that you should not make your mission easier. I thought the ground combat was too easy, personally. Even a group of several medics is not a serious challenge, if you know what you're doing. The Ensign and Lieutenant medics can be one-shot with a sniper rifle exploit on Elite (or nearly so if you're not a tac), so they are not that hard to take down. If a medic is being problematic, then just going into melee range and repeatedly using knock down will interrupt a lot of their heals and generate enough exposes to take them down.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
05-15-2011, 04:49 PM
I am guilty of this myself. I have one in my ground map. Some say too hard, some say too easy. I myself can rip through them with ease, with a level 7 or level 51. Just takes longer on the lower end. But my mission does suffer 3 star reviews because of this. They get that unfortunate spawn of medics that for some seem impossible but for others a challenge. I personally don't like easy missions and therefore probably won't change it. Regardless of what reviewers say. If i change that mob to an easy mob, then the map poses no challenge...It's a hard decision to make regardless. In my map it fits the story. If i make it easy then it wouldn't be much of an invasion... Besides i wouldn't say it's the authors fault when you have no control over what spawns. Cryptic should make each group spawn a certain type and not random spawns. I think it would solve the random unpleasantness.

Just my 2 cents worth...
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