Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
05-16-2011, 04:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
I definitely agree that you should not make your mission easier. I thought the ground combat was too easy, personally. Even a group of several medics is not a serious challenge, if you know what you're doing. The Ensign and Lieutenant medics can be one-shot with a sniper rifle exploit on Elite (or nearly so if you're not a tac), so they are not that hard to take down. If a medic is being problematic, then just going into melee range and repeatedly using knock down will interrupt a lot of their heals and generate enough exposes to take them down.
I'd really like to know what I'm doing wrong then! I always set up exploits, often with the Breen gun and a sniper rifle, and target single enemies with the whole squad, try to get in a couple of grenades from a boff or two, but still find that I get medics down to like 5% and then have them heal up completely in one or two actions.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
05-16-2011, 05:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Revo
i personally am quite self aware of using captain level mobs with enemies that have medics. i avoid them. i did make a commander level group with the mirror universe and even though i ripped through them in about 3 minutes, other have complained they are too hard, as they just run into a bad spawn and get more than one medic. i dont want to make it any easier and if someone cant beat a commander spawn then ill just take the bad rating on the chin.

i think this is something cryptic need to fix, but for the moment if i cant complete a mission it gets one star. if you use a captain level mob and you know there is a chance of a medic then its a risk you take and you should be prepared to get bitten for it.
Ultimately, I think it must come down to writing carefully. The mobs should be scaled to be the most difficult ones possible. Anything less than maximum level can be interpreted as creating an exploit I-win map. By the same token, you should make sure not to include too many mobs as this could be seen as exploitative as well. It is better to create a one-star map then to push the envelope, in your writing process, and risk breaking the foundry rules.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
05-16-2011, 05:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotValeriusCato View Post
I'd really like to know what I'm doing wrong then! I always set up exploits, often with the Breen gun and a sniper rifle, and target single enemies with the whole squad, try to get in a couple of grenades from a boff or two, but still find that I get medics down to like 5% and then have them heal up completely in one or two actions.
Are you talking about Captain Medics? Because I'll revise my initial post. It seems like Mirror Feds don't actually spawn Captain Medics or Commander Medics (at least not in the test mission I made where I fought numerous groups). Only normal Feds do. I suppose it's possible that the type of enemies that spawn are level specific, but I don't think that is too likely since Mirror Feds aren't even available until level 30 something to begin with.

As a result I've never actually fought Captain Medics, so I can't say with certainty you can take them out. Based on the amount of health the Captains have, I could see that it could actually become impossible. I'll have to test things out with my Klingon character and see.

If you're talking about the lieutenant or ensign medics then I'm not sure what the problem is. With my tactical officer I can one-shot a Lieutenant Medic with an exploit on Elite, but I am spec'ed in rifles so my damage will be about a third higher than a non-tac. Still, on normal it seems like you should be able to take them down. Try getting a sniper rifle with Crit H mods, that way it will critical more often, which should be enough to get them down. Even if you don't kill the ensigns/lieutenants right off the bat they can't usually heal themselves fast enough to prevent being finished off. However, if there are multiples you might nearly need to get the one-shot in order to get rid of them.

Honestly, Cryptic probably should balance the medics out better. You should never have more than one medic per rank, and at the higher ranks there has to be some way to kill them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
05-16-2011, 05:37 PM
In my second Klingon mission, one of my own fleet members told me, the last fight was the hardest he ever had in STO. The same happened to another player later on. So out of currently approx. 70 reviews, a few were bad for "mob-too-hard" reasons. I explained to my fleet member, that there is no control as to what exact enemy will spawn. Same to the other player, both were under-standing.

I played a mission once, where you had to face 6 captain level mobs, teamed in two groups of three.

Two of these groups spawned 2 Medics each and while the rest were Targ food in no time time, killing these two groups took me two hours. It was painful.
(If anyone wants to give that mission a try, he can PM me... )

That mission was not good for other reasons AND overuse of high level mobs.

I would not downrate a mission, because I got unlucky with a spawn. It's more or less like playing the lottery.

Beam out, if you can, continue and hope that your cards are better this time. (You can usually quick click through the parts you already accomplished and as far as I know, the NPCs on the uncompleted map aren't cached.).

In the long run I think Foundry authors need the freedom to decide, what type of mob exactly will spawn.

btw, to answer another post I read here: There is no way to label them correctly through e.g. uniforms, if you re-skin them, which often is necessary. It all depends on your player rank, then a lot of randomness.
Watch their actions and the icons they use, then go and prioritize your targets. (healers first, etc)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
05-16-2011, 06:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leirus
In my second Klingon mission, one of my own fleet members told me, the last fight was the hardest he ever had in STO. The same happened to another player later on. So out of currently approx. 70 reviews, a few were bad for "mob-too-hard" reasons. I explained to my fleet member, that there is no control as to what exact enemy will spawn. Same to the other player, both were under-standing.

I played a mission once, where you had to face 6 captain level mobs, teamed in two groups of three.

Two of these groups spawned 2 Medics each and while the rest were Targ food in no time time, killing these two groups took me two hours. It was painful.
(If anyone wants to give that mission a try, he can PM me... )

That mission was not good for other reasons AND overuse of high level mobs.

I would not downrate a mission, because I got unlucky with a spawn. It's more or less like playing the lottery.

Beam out, if you can, continue and hope that your cards are better this time. (You can usually quick click through the parts you already accomplished and as far as I know, the NPCs on the uncompleted map aren't cached.).

In the long run I think Foundry authors need the freedom to decide, what type of mob exactly will spawn.

btw, to answer another post I read here: There is no way to label them correctly through e.g. uniforms, if you re-skin them, which often is necessary. It all depends on your player rank, then a lot of randomness.
Watch their actions and the icons they use, then go and prioritize your targets. (healers first, etc)
While you may have no control over what type of NPC spawns, you do know that it is random. So if you place a Captain level group, then you are willingly choosing to have the possibility of a Captain level medic spawn. You mentioned that it is like playing the lottery, and you are right. However, it is you(the author) who are gambling, and you are doing it with the fun of the people who play your mission. So if you choose to gamble with other people's fun and they lose, then you should also lose in the rating they give you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
05-16-2011, 06:16 PM
Well the worst was a group of feds in a Klingon foundry mission, with a "Chief Medical Officer" but I have had the problem with some other enemy types too. Romulans I think? Anyway, I killed him after about 15 minutes when I managed to get a bunch of aoe effects and a critical from my tac boff to coincide with my exploit, but there were so many times he was almost just-about dead. Sometimes it is a lot harder depending on the type of character and how deep you get into maxing out stats.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
05-16-2011, 06:20 PM
Quote:
While you may have no control over what type of NPC spawns, you do know that it is random. So if you place a Captain level group, then you are willingly choosing to have the possibility of a Captain level medic spawn. You mentioned that it is like playing the lottery, and you are right. However, it is you(the author) who are gambling, and you are doing it with the fun of the people who play your mission. So if you choose to gamble with other people's fun and they loose, then you should also loose in the rating they give you.
Fair enough, if people think they have to give me a bad rating for this, then I'm fine with that. I never overdo it with boss fights. I do not blame players for it. Most do not know the limitations of the Foundry.

By comparison: Most ratings in my missions so far are 4 or 5 and have good reviews not only in the Game.

For the mission I was talking about:
2 out of 70 complaining about combat being too tough. (both not 1 stars btw)
Several mentioning combat is too easy. (not one stars)
3 reviews for language not being English. (and growing... all 1-stars from trolls)

So, how exactly would you make it right for everyone?

I died several times myself in another mission the other day. It still was a good mission. I did not downrate it, just because I got unlucky and I did not feel the author over-used boss encounters. Of course I am more tolerant, because I know what theoretically can happen 1 out of 100 times.

btw, I might add that in my mission you have the option to call in reinforcements before the fight. Both players that died chose to not do that despite an earlier dialogue warning.
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