Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 71
05-17-2011, 07:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jam062307 View Post
So let me get this straight. You don't want a T-5 connie because your selfish? You feel that the game should cater to you and everyone else can take a hike. That is not a very inclusive stance. If you don't like it don't use it. Keep yourself immersed in your own playing. Don't say no to everyone else because you don't like it. I don't like alot of things in STO...but I also acknowledge that some people do and I believe they have as much a right to have something they like in game as I do.

that's what I don't understand..most of the people against say "I don't like it...I don't think it belongs" stop thinking about I and start thinking about everyone else. I support all ships at end-game. If there is a ship in this game, it should be able to be upgraded to T5 end of story. I'll tell you, I have a killer set up for my engineer in an assault cruiser. I will probably never take him out of it because it is such a good set up. But just because I won't use something, doesn't mean it shouldn't be in game for others to use. Lets all stop thinking about ourselves and start thinking of others. Lets be good neighbors. Lets include everyone!
You do realize that your words are also an argument for not adding a T5 Constitution?
Stop thinking about 'I' and start thinking about those who don't want to see her at T5
Plus I believe CBS(Or was it Cryptic..Or both?) already said no to a T5 Constitution --> CBS/Cryptic locuta, causa finita.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 72
05-17-2011, 09:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt_Dracon_Darknight View Post
You do realize that your words are also an argument for not adding a T5 Constitution?
Stop thinking about 'I' and start thinking about those who don't want to see her at T5
Plus I believe CBS(Or was it Cryptic..Or both?) already said no to a T5 Constitution --> CBS/Cryptic locuta, causa finita.
Well, believe what you like...but...

The answer has not been NO..yet. We know they are working on a Connie Refit...and , with the tons of T5 threads, we hope they will hear us and make it a T5.

from April Ask Cryptic---

"Q: DecadeComplete How's the T5 Constitution Refit-Refit that was in a recent engineering report doing? Will there ever be a way to purchase "Ship Slots" and "Costume Slots" in game with say 1Mil EC or so?

A: We are working to add more variations to existing ships for both factions and one of the ships they are working on is an additional Constitution refit; however there has been no confirmation that this is a top tier ship. Geko can add more details as we get closer to Season 4 release, but for now, I can only say that we are working with CBS on an alternative refit design. "


And have you read any of JAMs posts? His words seem to say that he wants everyone to have whatever ships they want and if what one wants doesnt match what you want.. so be it..it harms no one.

Reading more than 1 post gives context......
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 73
05-17-2011, 09:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt_Dracon_Darknight View Post
You do realize that your words are also an argument for not adding a T5 Constitution?
Stop thinking about 'I' and start thinking about those who don't want to see her at T5
Plus I believe CBS(Or was it Cryptic..Or both?) already said no to a T5 Constitution --> CBS/Cryptic locuta, causa finita.
There is a big difference between the stance i'm arguing against "No, I don't want it, I don't think it belongs No" to my stance of "If it is what you want, I will support it". I'm arguing against being exclusive and for inclusion. It doesn't matter to me what ship people fly. Its that person's individual choice. My likes or dislikes should have no baring on the choices of another player. That is what I support. That is what I'm arguing for. Player freedom and choice of ship selection at end-game. Ones enjoyment of the game should come from content ie: missions and story arc, not from what new shiny another player is using at the time or how powerful/what tier it is when they are playing through the same content. Who cares. I should not be allowed to force my vision of what should and shouldn't be upon anyone else.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 74
05-17-2011, 10:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jam062307 View Post
There is a big difference between the stance i'm arguing against "No, I don't want it, I don't think it belongs No" to my stance of "If it is what you want, I will support it". I'm arguing against being exclusive and for inclusion. It doesn't matter to me what ship people fly. Its that person's individual choice. My likes or dislikes should have no baring on the choices of another player. That is what I support. That is what I'm arguing for. Player freedom and choice of ship selection at end-game. Ones enjoyment of the game should come from content ie: missions and story arc, not from what new shiny another player is using at the time or how powerful/what tier it is when they are playing through the same content. Who cares. I should not be allowed to force my vision of what should and shouldn't be upon anyone else.
FYI --didnt mean to speak for you sir! I was just annoyed that he clearly had no clue what you have said. JAM , you are a true american as well!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 75
05-17-2011, 10:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral Dr. Leonard McCoy
FYI --didnt mean to speak for you sir! I was just annoyed that he clearly had no clue what you have said. JAM , you are a true american as well!
No worries.......if more people stepped up in the world to inform the uninformed, we'd have alot less problems.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 76
05-17-2011, 10:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trek17
if Cryptic can get the money (and the permission from CBS), then we could still see the 2009 Enterprise in-game at some point it'll be some time either way, but it's still possible
Ugh... that gawdy ship? It looks terribe...I would not touch it with a 10 foot pole...perhaps if it is allowed in the game, my Klingon brethren (KDF players) would use this as our new focus of fire in the game...heheheh.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 77
05-18-2011, 04:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleTerribleRomulan
Ugh... that gawdy ship? It looks terribe...I would not touch it with a 10 foot pole...perhaps if it is allowed in the game, my Klingon brethren (KDF players) would use this as our new focus of fire in the game...heheheh.
I'm not hugely good at PVP but it would seem that focusing fire on a cruiser would be playing right into the Federation's hands.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 78
05-18-2011, 05:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral Dr. Leonard McCoy
Well, believe what you like...but...

The answer has not been NO..yet. We know they are working on a Connie Refit...and , with the tons of T5 threads, we hope they will hear us and make it a T5.

from April Ask Cryptic---

"Q: DecadeComplete How's the T5 Constitution Refit-Refit that was in a recent engineering report doing? Will there ever be a way to purchase "Ship Slots" and "Costume Slots" in game with say 1Mil EC or so?

A: We are working to add more variations to existing ships for both factions and one of the ships they are working on is an additional Constitution refit; however there has been no confirmation that this is a top tier ship. Geko can add more details as we get closer to Season 4 release, but for now, I can only say that we are working with CBS on an alternative refit design. "


And have you read any of JAMs posts? His words seem to say that he wants everyone to have whatever ships they want and if what one wants doesnt match what you want.. so be it..it harms no one.

Reading more than 1 post gives context......
Constitution refit does not automatically include a T5 Constitution.
I would rather place my bets on a certain design from the Enterprise F Contest for t5, which is in return not a Constitution anymore, which would satisfy everyone since she is not a 23rd century ship but a 25th.
And therefoe really not harm anyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ask Cryptic May 2011
Q: dorko1 I know that the refit is still a touchy subject, but could you guys shed any light on what might happen? I understand that there should be obvious misgivings about the idea of the Constitution class outmatching a vessel 200 yrs new and twice its size, but a replica that's really more of an Excalibur class vessel might be able to add something to the mix.

A: You are correct that it is a touchy subject amongst the community and based on the discussions we've had with CBS about ships, I don't think we're going to put a high-end Constitution Class refit into the game. You can still have a lower tier TOS Connie use the Squad Leader feature to bring their stats up to a higher level, but the odds of an end game Connie refit is a long shot.
Since it is a similar case to the Carrier Thread I''ll use the same way of argumentation:
Outmost word interpretation:
And to me it says: Probably not.
It doesn't say 'definitely not', but it does say not very likely, which is the difference between this case and the the one about the carrier: One says 'Not now, the other says 'not very likely'
So I have to reverse your first sentence: Hope what you want.

So I can't completely deny the possibility of an endgame conny being added one day, but still not very likely.
Compare it to shroedingers cat if you like: As long as the box is closed the cat is both dead and alive, but as soon as you open the box its either dead or alive (considering the contents of the experiment probably dead)

So sorry, but I have to throw a certain card back to you: Reading Ask Cryptic gives more context.

And yes I did read his posts, and I cannot agree, which might be the reason that it appeared I didn't.
While some people might think that it wouldn't harm anyone, others think it would.
And of course people care if their immersion gets destroyed by a 23rd century ship beating a Sovereign
So it does in some way harm peoples game experience, especially since the game is set in the 25th century, not the 23rd.

I don't particulary like the 'It doesn't harm anyone' argument btw, since its pretty easy to abuse it when being applied to international politics. I won't elborate on this though since political discussions are against the forum rules.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 79
05-18-2011, 07:53 AM
Quote:
And of course people care if their immersion gets destroyed by a 23rd century ship beating a Sovereign
As has already been pointed out people can already do that !
look at the Raptor, Bird of Prey, D,kyr, Nebula and then the Excelsior which is arguably a better ship in game.
Arguing that it should no be added because its an old design dose not match what we already have in the game.

Although not set in stone we can also reasonably expect the Ambassador and the andorian ship (Another NX era ship) to have T5 variants going by past experience why not a constitution for those that want it?

I'll also add people don't get beat by the ships they are beaten by other players - how often do you loose a fight in PvE?

You also speak of peoples "immersion" yours or others, what about my immersion? I cannot stand the Galaxy X I think its hideous and should not be in the game. But I fully accept that there are a lot of people who do like it and want to play it. I didn't cry for it to barred from the game and I don't cry for it to be removed from the game - I just accept that its there and ignore it so why cant the same apply to a high tier retrofit constitution.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 80
05-18-2011, 07:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jam062307 View Post
So let me get this straight. You don't want a T-5 connie because your selfish? You feel that the game should cater to you and everyone else can take a hike. That is not a very inclusive stance. If you don't like it don't use it. Keep yourself immersed in your own playing. Don't say no to everyone else because you don't like it. I don't like alot of things in STO...but I also acknowledge that some people do and I believe they have as much a right to have something they like in game as I do.

that's what I don't understand..most of the people against say "I don't like it...I don't think it belongs" stop thinking about I and start thinking about everyone else. I support all ships at end-game. If there is a ship in this game, it should be able to be upgraded to T5 end of story. I'll tell you, I have a killer set up for my engineer in an assault cruiser. I will probably never take him out of it because it is such a good set up. But just because I won't use something, doesn't mean it shouldn't be in game for others to use. Lets all stop thinking about ourselves and start thinking of others. Lets be good neighbors. Lets include everyone!
Twisting someone words and not taking them for face value is not nice or allowed. Please dont do that.
Canon is not broken. All ships are represented in the game based upon their value as well as their time period which is fine. Some people wish for a constitution to work like a 25th century ship. While many wish to ignore the time reference of ship design as well as every ship in game being represented based upon its time frame.

Again I say all ships are represented in game based upon their time frame as well as power allocations. Please try to show examples when you make a reference. It helps for one to understand your point. As the rules state do not call someone wrong because you dont agree with them. You should show your side without calling them wrong as I have done numerous times.

example a T5 excelsior is the lokota which is something starfleet created via DS9. The vulcans had science ships in the late 24th century and created ships that are capable of doing what the STO version does. Many of the T5 ships are special in all respecs to late time frame.

All ship designs are in balance with how ships worked from the show or at least close to it. The connie is in the game as an iconic representation of captain kirk and well as the NX being the first warp 5 ship. If you wish to fly that ship through the whole game then it will be a challenge but I dont see why you cant add higher gear and play. People arent against the connie but the mere fact that no such ship was ever created in a class of superior fire power or abilities. Tradition of over 40 years seems to not be taken into consideration. Lets just ignore it for the sake of ignoring it. T5 ships are the way they are due to their technical specifications and iconic stance. I dont see how a connie should be able to stand up against a soverign or for that matter a galaxy.

In closing as I think the situation has ended. the latest ask cryptic did answer the clause that CBS feels that such a design of a ship should not happen. You may ignore the asnwer but now i see some do not care about answers and just will consider a no not a no. its funny but yeah its sucks to see such attributes in the end.
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