Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 81
05-18-2011, 08:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt_Dracon_Darknight View Post
Constitution refit does not automatically include a T5 Constitution.
I would rather place my bets on a certain design from the Enterprise F Contest for t5, which is in return not a Constitution anymore, which would satisfy everyone since she is not a 23rd century ship but a 25th.
And therefoe really not harm anyone.



Since it is a similar case to the Carrier Thread I''ll use the same way of argumentation:
Outmost word interpretation:
And to me it says: Probably not.
It doesn't say 'definitely not', but it does say not very likely, which is the difference between this case and the the one about the carrier: One says 'Not now, the other says 'not very likely'
So I have to reverse your first sentence: Hope what you want.

So I can't completely deny the possibility of an endgame conny being added one day, but still not very likely.
Compare it to shroedingers cat if you like: As long as the box is closed the cat is both dead and alive, but as soon as you open the box its either dead or alive (considering the contents of the experiment probably dead)

So sorry, but I have to throw a certain card back to you: Reading Ask Cryptic gives more context.

And yes I did read his posts, and I cannot agree, which might be the reason that it appeared I didn't.
While some people might think that it wouldn't harm anyone, others think it would.
And of course people care if their immersion gets destroyed by a 23rd century ship beating a Sovereign
So it does in some way harm peoples game experience, especially since the game is set in the 25th century, not the 23rd.

I don't particulary like the 'It doesn't harm anyone' argument btw, since its pretty easy to abuse it when being applied to international politics. I won't elborate on this though since political discussions are against the forum rules.
You do realize I didnt say the refit was for sure gonna be a T5...if you actually read what I said...."The answer has not been NO..yet. We know they are working on a Connie Refit...and , with the tons of T5 threads, we hope they will hear us and make it a T5."

And I do understand the words..and NO has yet to be said....true, probably not is the probable answer...but its not over yet...but, then again, ive already said that a couple times...

good thing you do read before you..oh wait....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 82
05-18-2011, 09:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral Dr. Leonard McCoy
You do realize I didnt say the refit was for sure gonna be a T5...if you actually read what I said...."The answer has not been NO..yet. We know they are working on a Connie Refit...and , with the tons of T5 threads, we hope they will hear us and make it a T5."

And I do understand the words..and NO has yet to be said....true, probably not is the probable answer...but its not over yet...but, then again, ive already said that a couple times...

good thing you do read before you..oh wait....
I hope they will treat you like the KDF's and make it logicaly a T2.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 83
05-18-2011, 12:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral Dr. Leonard McCoy
You do realize I didnt say the refit was for sure gonna be a T5...if you actually read what I said...."The answer has not been NO..yet. We know they are working on a Connie Refit...and , with the tons of T5 threads, we hope they will hear us and make it a T5."

And I do understand the words..and NO has yet to be said....true, probably not is the probable answer...but its not over yet...but, then again, ive already said that a couple times...

good thing you do read before you..oh wait....
Again last sentence back to you
Quote:
Originally Posted by myself
So I have to reverse your first sentence: Hope what you want.
Furthermore I also remember me writing that No has yet to be said too, which does rather show that we agree there than that I didn't read the posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by McItoshi
As has already been pointed out people can already do that !
look at the Raptor, Bird of Prey, D,kyr, Nebula and then the Excelsior which is arguably a better ship in game.
Arguing that it should no be added because its an old design dose not match what we already have in the game.

Although not set in stone we can also reasonably expect the Ambassador and the andorian ship (Another NX era ship) to have T5 variants going by past experience why not a constitution for those that want it?

I'll also add people don't get beat by the ships they are beaten by other players - how often do you loose a fight in PvE?

You also speak of peoples "immersion" yours or others, what about my immersion? I cannot stand the Galaxy X I think its hideous and should not be in the game. But I fully accept that there are a lot of people who do like it and want to play it. I didn't cry for it to barred from the game and I don't cry for it to be removed from the game - I just accept that its there and ignore it so why cant the same apply to a high tier retrofit constitution.
I have to admit that I was waiting for the Gal X to come into play here:
The difference between those ships is that the Gal-X is a ship used in the 25th century. Saying she is hideous is btw NEARLY the same as saying the normal Galaxy is. We could of course start argung about her being from another quantuum reality, but that discussion should be between SCIENTISTS. So I would like to withdraw from that aspect, since my subject has nothing to do with time travel or quantuum theories.
Her mere fact that people think she is hideous does btw not ruin immersion, the fact that a 300 year old vesel has the same capabilities as ships that were, more than once, shown as being stronger does.


About those other ships:
Vulcan ships look VERY similar to the V'kyr. Siimilar enough to let her slide.
Some races tend to change their Ship designs others do not. The Federation though has shown that its designs drastically change.

The Nebula is a 24th century ship therefore within a reasonable refit range.

Excelsior: I would have put the refit version on T4.

Ambassador ref - See above


About being beaten by people not by ships: Not entirely true.
I would like to invite you to a little experiment:

Both of us unequipp our shields, use the same weapons(amount too) and we just autofire at each other, you use a Constitution I use any t5 ship
I think I don't have to talk about the odds of the conny winning. - So say who has defeated your ship now: Me, doing nothing but pressing the same button you did, or my ship having a stronger hull?

Again, I too said that several times during this WHOLE discussion (including other threads)
Conny vs Sov is the same as galleon vs modern battleship


So sorry guys both parties will have to find a compromise, and I propose: http://www.startrekonline.com/enterprise/gallery?share=869"
Imho a fair solution for everyone. It looks like a conny, they could make it bigger and the design actually says 'beyond 23rd century'
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 84
05-18-2011, 03:35 PM
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wow, i generally agree with you--except for the Vulcan ship...why not name it something different? Its intended to be the very ship that I posted...and thats the problem with it.

As Jam has stated..its just about freedom of choice..and saying no for so and so reason, when you clearly have broken all your reasons many times, is just weak. They want a buck, and thats all...and this would help generate cash they may indeed need now that Atari is dumping them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 85
05-18-2011, 03:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UFP-Magnis View Post
Twisting someone words and not taking them for face value is not nice or allowed. Please dont do that.
Canon is not broken. All ships are represented in the game based upon their value as well as their time period which is fine. Some people wish for a constitution to work like a 25th century ship. While many wish to ignore the time reference of ship design as well as every ship in game being represented based upon its time frame.

Again I say all ships are represented in game based upon their time frame as well as power allocations. Please try to show examples when you make a reference. It helps for one to understand your point. As the rules state do not call someone wrong because you dont agree with them. You should show your side without calling them wrong as I have done numerous times.

example a T5 excelsior is the lokota which is something starfleet created via DS9. The vulcans had science ships in the late 24th century and created ships that are capable of doing what the STO version does. Many of the T5 ships are special in all respecs to late time frame.

All ship designs are in balance with how ships worked from the show or at least close to it. The connie is in the game as an iconic representation of captain kirk and well as the NX being the first warp 5 ship. If you wish to fly that ship through the whole game then it will be a challenge but I dont see why you cant add higher gear and play. People arent against the connie but the mere fact that no such ship was ever created in a class of superior fire power or abilities. Tradition of over 40 years seems to not be taken into consideration. Lets just ignore it for the sake of ignoring it. T5 ships are the way they are due to their technical specifications and iconic stance. I dont see how a connie should be able to stand up against a soverign or for that matter a galaxy.

In closing as I think the situation has ended. the latest ask cryptic did answer the clause that CBS feels that such a design of a ship should not happen. You may ignore the asnwer but now i see some do not care about answers and just will consider a no not a no. its funny but yeah its sucks to see such attributes in the end.
This is full of so many jokes, I hesitate to start naming them all...I will say that you need to at least use Google and do a bit of research. Most of what yo have said isnt just a bit off...its very wrong....saying that , in STO, cannon is preserved. Thats so funny its almost maddening.

If you really need, I can list some resons for you, but Cannon is shattered..and even a blnd man in a concrete bunker, 2 miles below the Earths surface, can see that.

Oh, and, considering that post of yours a while back, where you were rude, insulting, and condescending becuse you thought the poster was wrong about the phaser tech...well, lets just say that telling others to be polite after seeing you be so nasty is very funny indeed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 86
05-18-2011, 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UFP-Magnis View Post
Twisting someone words and not taking them for face value is not nice or allowed. Please dont do that.
Canon is not broken. All ships are represented in the game based upon their value as well as their time period which is fine. Some people wish for a constitution to work like a 25th century ship. While many wish to ignore the time reference of ship design as well as every ship in game being represented based upon its time frame.

Again I say all ships are represented in game based upon their time frame as well as power allocations. Please try to show examples when you make a reference. It helps for one to understand your point. As the rules state do not call someone wrong because you dont agree with them. You should show your side without calling them wrong as I have done numerous times.

example a T5 excelsior is the lokota which is something starfleet created via DS9. The vulcans had science ships in the late 24th century and created ships that are capable of doing what the STO version does. Many of the T5 ships are special in all respecs to late time frame.

All ship designs are in balance with how ships worked from the show or at least close to it. The connie is in the game as an iconic representation of captain kirk and well as the NX being the first warp 5 ship. If you wish to fly that ship through the whole game then it will be a challenge but I dont see why you cant add higher gear and play. People arent against the connie but the mere fact that no such ship was ever created in a class of superior fire power or abilities. Tradition of over 40 years seems to not be taken into consideration. Lets just ignore it for the sake of ignoring it. T5 ships are the way they are due to their technical specifications and iconic stance. I dont see how a connie should be able to stand up against a soverign or for that matter a galaxy.

In closing as I think the situation has ended. the latest ask cryptic did answer the clause that CBS feels that such a design of a ship should not happen. You may ignore the asnwer but now i see some do not care about answers and just will consider a no not a no. its funny but yeah its sucks to see such attributes in the end.
I believe I have already stated in earlier posts that techincal specs mean nothing. They are 1) subjective and 2) depending on which side of the fence you sit on this issue can be favorable towards your argument. Being that this is a GAME based on a science FICTION franchise, anything is possible. Canon only goes as far as story arcs and has nothing to do with actual game play. I mean really, do you think that your captain is impacting Canon as you play. Of course he doesn't. There is a reason the STO main server is called HOLODECK. If you want to have a technical reason why a T5 connie could work you can find one, if you want a technical reason why it won't you can find that too. Being that this is FICTION, you can make up anything you want and have it be believable. I mean ,Shatner brought his character back to life in his book with the borg's help. Spock was brought back to life because of the genesis wave. Data was brought back to life through some technical mumbo jumbo. Are you telling me they can't do the same with an iconic design. Bring it back to life.

all ships should be upgradeable to end-game. players should be able to choose what their captain flys at all levels. what my captain flys and how powerful it is has no bearing on any other players game play just as what you fly and how powerful it is has no bearing on my game play.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 87
05-19-2011, 04:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jam062307 View Post
all ships should be upgradeable to end-game. players should be able to choose what their captain flys at all levels. what my captain flys and how powerful it is has no bearing on any other players game play just as what you fly and how powerful it is has no bearing on my game play.
So long as these ships are upgradeable to Vice Admiral standards, I don't see why not. Only possible game balance issue here could be turn radius which you'd want to be the same through any ranks of a given vessel, and that's easy enough to balance around with hull strength and consoles.
Lt. Commander
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# 88
05-22-2011, 05:39 PM
If I could fly MY Enterprise. The refit Constitution from the movies... I'd life sub right now.

Best ship ever designed. Why there'd be any nitpicking over this being in the timeline is laughable.
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# 89
05-23-2011, 02:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shayde View Post
If I could fly MY Enterprise. The refit Constitution from the movies... I'd life sub right now.

Best ship ever designed. Why there'd be any nitpicking over this being in the timeline is laughable.
Couldn't agree with you more. any ship in this game should be upgradable to end-game. A players choice of which ship to fly should be just that a choice, and should not be hampered by an inconsistent and comical tier system. Make them upgradable and it'll fix the non-sense.
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# 90
05-23-2011, 02:57 PM
For what it's worth, I agree.
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