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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 41
05-31-2011, 02:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
As much as I would like to have "PUG queues" I do not like when people are forced to do something, so forcing premades to disband in all matches is big NONO from me.

Hence only logical choice are two types of queues.

I would leave the current maps as they are, for "premade" competitive gameplay. But would add a simple new queue called "Random Arena" or "Random CaH". In this mode you can only enter solo.

Time would show, which gameplay is preferred by players...
The problem is that PUGS seem to vastly outnumber pre-made teams. Aside from encountering members of LF with great frequency in CnH, most other players I see are not in premades. They aren't in any team. Feds actually seem to have an aversion to teaming.

So that would mean they would prefer the random queues, and poof, the vast majority of players disappear from the "team queue", which will then likely rarely, if ever, pop, due to limited numbers. It would almost become a de-facto challenge queue. I honestly don't see that as a good thing for promoting team play, which should be the modus operandus, and it's a slap in the face for being a "good player"

Heck, is the problem really that pre-made teams are uber, or that everyone else is just to self-centered and uninterested to even want to work as a cohesive unit with other people? I had to almost BEG for heals in an arena match the other day with 3 cruisers on my side. I mean, COME ON.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42
05-31-2011, 02:39 AM
You mean, it would show, that vast majority of "pvpers" aren't interested in competitive gameplay ? well so be it...at least the game resources would be used to something people are interested in.

You could encourage players to queue as teams, simply if you reward the competitive gameplay with more rewards (emblems gear) and some ego boost (accolades,ladders).

The problem is, one side always "suffers"....but isn't it from star trek...the need of the many, outweight the need of few ? or the one....so go figure...

Dont always try to change into "group more, team up stuff". Its false argument. In a PUG environment, it takes just one person to go afk, and the rest cannot cope with the deficit against premade. Thats the main point. While one side has always 5 people ready, with macros set, builds optimized for their team, the other has to first rely that all people will fight...

First we need to filter out afkers...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43
05-31-2011, 02:42 AM
I'm not sure what encouragement they need besides not wanting to have their asses handed to them. It's what got me more team oriented..
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
05-31-2011, 02:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artificialx
I'm not sure what encouragement they need besides not wanting to have their asses handed to them. It's what got me more team oriented..
If you for example would hand in emblems only for wins, but some substantial amount like 10, repeatable, some accolades and titles and such. I'm sure more people would queue for the competitive gameplay.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
05-31-2011, 02:47 AM
I've been in favour or greater rewards for winning for ages. It's a no brainer. I would keep the current emblem level the same, but give double for winning. Something like that. "Win only" drives away newbies and farmers, who frankly, are probably keeping the queues going.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 46
05-31-2011, 03:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artificialx
I've been in favour or greater rewards for winning for ages. It's a no brainer. I would keep the current emblem level the same, but give double for winning. Something like that. "Win only" drives away newbies and farmers, who frankly, are probably keeping the queues going.
That would lead nowhere, as afkers would still get 3 emblems and they would still do it...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 47
05-31-2011, 04:17 AM
I have always been skeptical on the idea of a Premade Queue, because I tend to think that the Queue might not have enough members.

But:
There are clearly pre-grouped players flying around, usually fleet mates.
When TSI or RE asks around in OrganizedPvP if there are any Premades on, there is usually only silence.
Oddly enough, if you go queuing, you still meet such fleets.

So I think doing a "real" Premade fleet match is to inconvenient right now for most. People don'T care to jump trhough the hoops of private challenges, miss or ignore questions for Premade matches in the chat channel. And some just want to fly together and are not looking for real challenges, just some casual PewPewing.

But - they still want to do their PvP together. There can be no doubt about that.

So maybe my concern is quite simply wrong. There is a significant enough population to fill a Premade Queue. A Queue would force these people that want to play together to join such matches.

I think the best approach might be to have two queues.

PUG queue: Teams cannot queue for this queue.
Premade Queue: Teams (of any size) and single players can join this queue. This is basically like the old queue.

In addition, what could be done is rolling in FvK, FvF and KvK into t hese queues. So we would basically keep the same number of queues as now.

New Queue Proposal
There are no longer distinctions between FvK, FvF and KvK. If possible, the match generator should probably be weighted towards FvK.
Teams cannot queue in single player queues, but everyone can queue in the team & single player matches. If possible, the match generator tries to get equally sized teams into matches against each other. Should player rankings ever come available, these could also influence the match-ups.
  • Space Arena Queue - Single Player
  • Space Arena Queue - Team and Single Player
  • Capture & Hold Arena Queue - Single Player
  • Capture & Hold Arena Queue - Team and Single Player
  • Ground Arene Queue - Single Player
  • Ground Arena Queue - Team and Single Player
  • Ground Assault Queue - Single Player
  • Ground Arene Queue - Team and Single Player
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 48
05-31-2011, 04:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
That would lead nowhere, as afkers would still get 3 emblems and they would still do it...
If there is one thing we know about farmers is they love their emblems. One was here the other day moaning about not getting enough from PvP. Those types, would likely end up getting more involved if it meant the difference between 3 or 6 emblems.

The problem with making it win only is that NONE of them will play, EVER, because they CAN'T win. That would kill our populace.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 49
05-31-2011, 04:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artificialx
If there is one thing we know about farmers is they love their emblems. One was here the other day moaning about not getting enough from PvP. Those types, would likely end up getting more involved if it meant the difference between 3 or 6 emblems.

The problem with making it win only is that NONE of them will play, EVER, because they CAN'T win. That would kill our populace.
You got it wrong. Farmers want they reward for minimum effort. If you need to actually win for emblems, and there are premade fleets lurking in queues, then you have close no chance to get the emblems, even if the reward was 1000 emblems...so they would rather farm current PvE missions for rewards or whatever is available to them...unless they have actually chance to win, which is close to none against some premades.

If you give emblems even for loosing, people will afk, ultimately preventing those others who try to win from winning unless they form premade teams, hence forcing people to do something. I don't like being forced to something same as I don't like to force something upon others.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 50
05-31-2011, 10:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
You got it wrong. Farmers want they reward for minimum effort. If you need to actually win for emblems, and there are premade fleets lurking in queues, then you have close no chance to get the emblems, even if the reward was 1000 emblems...so they would rather farm current PvE missions for rewards or whatever is available to them...unless they have actually chance to win, which is close to none against some premades.

If you give emblems even for loosing, people will afk, ultimately preventing those others who try to win from winning unless they form premade teams, hence forcing people to do something. I don't like being forced to something same as I don't like to force something upon others.
This is where a rating system would be nice. Rewards could be scaled. A rating system doesn't only have to split players from playing against one another. How about that rating system gave levels of rewards based on player abilities. For instance LOTRO PvmP has a renown system. Where players with higher renown levels are worth more renown for scoring kills on.
Perhaps Skill points and emblem rewards could be scaled to your opponents skill and kill counts (or even dmg counts) could play into the reward system.

Perhaps everyone should get 1 emblem for a round of 3 instead of the 3 given now;
However you get a bonus of .2 emblems for every kill you get credit on... with a muliplier based on the renown rating.. such that a kill on a very highly rated player could give you up to say a 5x bonus on that math.

I understand playing on a pug that is getting stomped by a better team on the other side is frustrating, I have pugged often enough to have been there... but if there was some incentive to push hard and perhaps score even a couple kills it could make for better games when those matchups happen.
S
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