Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 51
06-09-2011, 10:06 AM
Cause they can be brutally effective.

"There are few who are tough, but most are just floating tin. The few who aren't...yeah, they get accused of being OP every match they win. They aren't OP. It's just some loser doesn't know what he's doing, he thinks PvP is PvE and he gets his hat handed to him becasue he can't accomodate for the difference. Then he comes here and QQ's that Carriers are OP, that cloak is OP and that anything else he doesn't use or like is OP. He never tests it out. Never tres to learn how to beat it."

your saying the feds are noobs when the carriers win and cry about it...Im saying the carriers are Very strong in groups and if they klingons know what they are doing they can dominate...

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Atari Community Rules and Policies ~<GM Jahia>
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 52
06-09-2011, 10:06 AM
In the current state of the game, Carrier's have to deal damage without pets. You're spawns won't stay alive long enough to contribute to your damage. If you spec for tanking, you can can still be dropped by a sci ship fast. Sci has the lowest DPS in game, as I wrote previously.

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Atari Community Rules and Policies ~<GM Jahia>
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 53
06-09-2011, 10:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by opzulu View Post
Cause they can be brutally effective.

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Atari Community Rules and Policies ~<GM Jahia>
That's maybe the best quote... from someone who never flew a carrier vs a skilled player/team.
No carrier aren't OP. It all depends on ypur oponent and you are no match at all.
And I'm still all against FvF cause it killed the whole PvP idea in STO cause since they started it those players lost the ground based for their insults. They just screem what they think without ever made a good ammount "tests" with different setups. I'm sorry but STO isn't canon nor balanced but QQing about that the carrier may be OP is the same as to grumble about the current weather.

PS: To you forum mods - next time edit a posting to it's meaning instead to grab a line and delete everything else.
And to those who calim to be a DEV - how about to write a line about the current state of the development and what we have to expect. It's annoying to write bugrepots en mass or discuss ideas to improve the game and never get a response.

PPS: Why do I never see a GM ingame but in this thread as a MOD?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 54
06-09-2011, 10:06 AM
@Ihnako
I'd be careful saying anything to the mods here, especially like that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 55
06-09-2011, 10:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by opzulu View Post
Giving them more spam and having no other changes would be op and yes, that would include taking away the weapon slot to give them the hangar...NOW I said it the word OP
You'r talking about spam - what do you think would another hangar change?
Nothing cause the ammount of fighters and BoPs are limited regardless of how many hangers you have.
Nobody was asking for more fighters - that's what you imply.

And yes - I do fly with and against skilled players.
And yes - there's allways a way to crack 6 and even 12 carriers. You just have to use your skills.
But what about 6 to 12 cruisers? 8 Beams each? How long do you think could a carrier survive?
6 to 12 escorts or science? So... don't brother me with your lolskills.

Skill and the right team and a proper communication and you will allways win.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 56
06-09-2011, 10:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by opzulu View Post
I was making a point. Its sooo easy to just call someone a noob and that they cant play. I have seen Carriers used very effectivly and giving them more pets doesnt sit well with me.

And taking my quote out of context doesnt help your argument either.

I believe my first comment was that I would like them to test it first, because when used in large ammounts (large amounts of carriers that is) they can be used very effective, giving them more pets sounds like a bad idea. Now if there was a change in tandem with this one they should state it cause otherwise to think that some other magical change of balance will come out is just illogical.

we are talking about one update, specifically more spam on carriers. The point I brought up is in groups they can be used very effectively already.



I think the best part of this "conversation" is that I never said the carrier was OP...if you actually read what I said, they did something very effective. we havent found a good way to combat the strategy yet. What I would hate to see is our team using bfaw 1/2/3 to do it, I mean I thought this game was supposed to not have an I win button, we have been tryn different things, I changed things up but didnt matter in our 2nd match, hopefully the third will be more interesting.

Giving them more spam and having no other changes would be op and yes, that would include taking away the weapon slot to give them the hangar...NOW I said it the word OP

See how easy it is to just call someone a noob and that they dont know what they are doing? This thread is pointless...


"They come here and cry and complain about this and that. They don't rationally talk about what should be fixed, how it is overpowered and a logical way it could work better. Intead, they scream doom and claim false ideals to be true."

ROFL!! i guess its to much to ask for people to actually real my posts around here, tell me, did you read my posts in here or just attack me cause you saw i was as fed player in the klingon secton? This This is whats wrong with this thread. I was stating a personal experience not calling the ship op mind you, but the idea they want to do imo would be.
I said people, not you specifically. If you are assuming that it is implied to be about YOU, then maybe you are guilty of that which you claim to not be?

Didn't you say you won't be playing Fed vs Klingon PvP until they fix it? I didn't notice any patch notes saynig it was fixed.

I didn't say all Fed were noobs. But the majority of those posting are new to PvP. The largest issue with PvP period is the lack of people willing to teach and train players to play better. They are too afraid to give away their top secret builds and afraid that one day this person might be better than them. So some player comes in from a pure PvE experience and gets killed over and over. They come here and complain, someone else decides they must be right and the next thing you know there is a 50 page thread about something that isn't broken.

The trend continnues, the PvP is so broken right now that you can spend only a couple of minutes looking at the PvP forums and see it. Why has this happened? Hmm....maybe from what i said above. People not trying to learn to combat tactics, or trying to find out what beats something else effectively. They just come and complain.

If you aren't one of those people, then why are you defending yourself?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 57
06-09-2011, 10:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ihnako View Post
You'r talking about spam - what do you think would another hangar change?
Nothing cause the ammount of fighters and BoPs are limited regardless of how many hangers you have.
Nobody was asking for more fighters - that's what you imply.

And yes - I do fly with and against skilled players.
And yes - there's allways a way to crack 6 and even 12 carriers. You just have to use your skills.
But what about 6 to 12 cruisers? 8 Beams each? How long do you think could a carrier survive?
6 to 12 escorts or science? So... don't brother me with your lolskills.

Skill and the right team and a proper communication and you will allways win.
what do you think would another hangar change?...Im thinking a hangar would hold ships...ships that you dont control to me is spam

"And yes - there's allways a way to crack 6 and even 12 carriers. You just have to use your skills."

I never said the carrier was OP I did say we were looking into how to defeat the strategy. but thanks for the use better skills, it helps.

"But what about 6 to 12 cruisers? 8 Beams each? How long do you think could a carrier survive? " Very long actually, Like I said we did a 5 vs 5 and they lost 2 ships in the match. You can do it.

What I dont get is why people here are SLAMMING the carrier and saying it always dies, maybe thats your experience but all I did was say how we *a team of players on vent, had a match with other team of players 100% chance of them on vent* got totally nailed.* got killed and you guys are just adamant that it doesnt work at all...I just dont get it...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 58
06-09-2011, 10:06 AM
If you aren't one of those people, then why are you defending yourself?

typically when having a conversation and I say people, its referring to the people in the room with me, or this case to the people in the thread. or I would have said other people. secondly I have played 1 other pvp match after the posting of saying I dont want to play pvp against klingons until its fixed...and I did so cause my fleet needed another person or the other fleet would have a member sit out to make it even.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 59
06-09-2011, 10:06 AM
Loosing weapons in order to get additional pets? Sure why not, but I want BoP's!!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 60
06-09-2011, 10:06 AM
This sounds like a disguised nerf to me...there is a cap on the number of fighters you can have active at any one time...and if that cap does NOT change, then you could have 10 million hangers...it just would not matter...because you can only have 18 fighters active.

That means that these extra hangers would essentially be useless...because the actual number of fighters you could have active would not change. About the only benefit you might see is that you could theoretically replace fighter losses faster...but the truth is that if you want to get rid of fighters...shoot down the carrier. Very much cost efficient.

And consider this...if carrier spam is not a problem...then adding two more bays...and increasing the cap to say...24 fighters, does what exactly? It gives carrier pilots the pre-nerf cap, but at the expense of practically all of the carrier's weapons. Sheesh. That sounds like a major nerf to me.

However, since we are on the topic of carrier weapons...I do have some ideas that I think could enhance carrier play. It seems to me that carrier weaponry is not treated properly at all. Our carriers are big platforms...and I think that they deserve weapons that are unique to big capital ships....things like...

1. A spinal mount or railgun. Something that throws big chunks of iron at a very, very fast speed...that does a LOT of damage if it manages to connect...
2. Long-range self-guided drones -- ship killers.
3. Close-in support weapons that act as anti-mine and anti-fighter (MVAM, Saucer, Scorpion, and even ships that get too close...like 2 klicks or so) weapons.
4. Advanced weapons electronics that allow targets to be engaged and fired on with main carrier batteries at extended ranges...perhaps 15 k or so.
5. "Heavy" versions of our beam weapons that do more damage than regular sized beam weapons, and perhaps have a bit more range as well.

I am sure that there are other ideas...but the point is that carriers are truly unique platforms...and they should have weapons that no other ship is large enough to even mount...and those weapons should directly complement fighter operations. As such..the carrier could be a long-range combat support vessel, providing heavy fire at extended ranges during a fleet action.

I think you get the idea...

I also think that...

1. If SPAM is not a problem..then carriers should be returned to their pre-nerf fighter and BoP caps...also, the launch rates should probably be looked at again, with the intent to make them cycle a bit faster.
2. Fighters, BoPs, and any "pet" that is launched from a carrier platform should be able to be controlled directly by the player.
3. More hangar diversity.
4. Damage buffed for both fighters and BoPs
5. An increase in the acquisition and launch ranges...perhaps from 15 to 25.

Just some thoughts....I know that if all of this got implemented, there would be heck to pay, since quite frankly, some of this is overpowered, and I know that...but that does not dismiss the fact that these are good starting points for ideas. I especially like the idea of carrier-only weaponry. I think that would do a great deal to make this class of vessel far more attractive to players, and it would do a lot for the game, as well.
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