Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
06-09-2011, 11:00 AM
Well... there are a few problems with this idea.

First off, the third nacelle is part of the refit of the ship. Having it removed with a piece of hardware would be like ripping off your leg to take off a shoe. This presents the problem, also, of not being able to equip full sets onto the Galaxy X while still keeping it the familiar Galaxy X. The Aegis wouldn't be able to have its Reactive Shielding, the Borg wouldn't get their Tractor Beam, and the Breen wouldn't get their Energy Dampeners.

Second, if you remember, the Pasteur did Warp 13, and I didn't see any third nacelle on that ship. Heck, that was Olympic-class! That's a Commander-level Science Ship! Nothing special about warp 13. Plus, the Borg engine allows warp 14, so that point is kind of moot.

Third, why only 2 Turn mods? Why not 3? I find it odd, actually... you decide to try and invent an auto-scaling version of the engine I already HAVE on my Galaxy X. It makes no sense.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
06-09-2011, 11:00 AM
what struck me most was why you would want it to be a combat impulse engine at end game levels. the way they have engines work, the power levels you should have at end game make combat engines useless. plus, if you tried to divert all power to engines to evasive out of harms way, you couldn't. that alone makes them useless at end game. you would be surprised how quick cruisers can move when needed.

oh and the whole warp 13 thing i think is just a rebalance of the warp scale, like they changed war 9.9 into warp 10, 9.99 into war 11 etc...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
06-09-2011, 11:00 AM
I wouldn't mind seeing the tier 2 Connie with the Wrath of Khan phasers. Its odd seeing phaser strips on her hull.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
06-09-2011, 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mindmage View Post
I wouldn't mind seeing the tier 2 Connie with the Wrath of Khan phasers. Its odd seeing phaser strips on her hull.
thats nice...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
06-09-2011, 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord-Ice
Third, why only 2 Turn mods? Why not 3? I find it odd, actually... you decide to try and invent an auto-scaling version of the engine I already HAVE on my Galaxy X. It makes no sense.
I'd be in favor of the Pasteur also getting Warp 13 engines and the Excelsior Transwarp ability being tied to the engines. I figure the Pasteur Engines would be Efficient Engines [Speed]x2.

The reason for x2 instead of x3 as I'd previously suggested is that special promo items tend to be blue quality and level scaling. I figure [Turn]x3 would come without the Warp 13 ability and be craftable, non-scaling.

To fit [Turn]x3 into the budget of a blue quality scaling item, the engines would probably need a negative stat like -30% hull because blue items are only scaled for two active bonuses.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
06-09-2011, 11:00 AM
Although... -Hull on a blue item with three bonuses to Turnrate would reinforce the fact that this is using a ship in an unintended way, kinda hotwiring a cruiser to be more like an escort.

As far as engine power, the build I have for my Galaxy-X is based around the idea of hotwiring a cruiser to be more Escort-like and the result is weapons and engines pretty close to full power with shields and aux at minimum since turnrate is tied to engine power now. I think it actually provides some balance and makes some sense to pick the special engines for this based around the assumption that people will be running the engines at a high power level.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
06-09-2011, 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebeneezergoode
I think some Starfleet cruisers do need a buff somewhere to gain parity with their KDF counterparts, but I still feel they should be buffed elsewhere, rather than be made the same, as it'd help maintain the seperate play styles/faction identities a little better. And I do genuinely sympathise with the frustration Galaxy-x drivers must feel since 2000 cryptic points isn't a joke, and I'd want it to at least have parity with what it's flown against.

I suppose essentially, I want balance while maintaining the unique way ships function and behave.
believe me, i would love for klingon and federation ships to play vastly differently, and more or less be balanced with their vastly different styles, but the way weapons are in game makes that more or less impossible.

i used to mod the game ST Legacy extensively, and managed to make it look almost exactly like the shows through the different eras, and did so keeping each factions ships playing differently. it actually played very much like STO for the first few tires, just with no abilities or anything. Never did quite finish the last version, STO was to fun.

The last few tires are completely overboard with insane amounts of energy weapons flack, being able to fire 8 beams is stupid, why arenít we firing 1 beam with the power of 8? thatís what they did in the shows, and thatís how i set things up in my modded legacy. Also, cannons are not machine guns, donít care for that rapid fire effect. Things would feel like startrek if it were me balancing things, not generic space strategy thatís startrek inspired
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
06-09-2011, 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
believe me, i would love for klingon and federation ships to play vastly differently, and more or less be balanced with their vastly different styles, but the way weapons are in game makes that more or less impossible.

i used to mod the game ST Legacy extensively, and managed to make it look almost exactly like the shows through the different eras, and did so keeping each factions ships playing differently. it actually played very much like STO for the first few tires, just with no abilities or anything. Never did quite finish the last version, STO was to fun.

The last few tires are completely overboard with insane amounts of energy weapons flack, being able to fire 8 beams is stupid, why arenít we firing 1 beam with the power of 8? thatís what they did in the shows, and thatís how i set things up in my modded legacy. Also, cannons are not machine guns, donít care for that rapid fire effect. Things would feel like startrek if it were me balancing things, not generic space strategy thatís startrek inspired
If things were done properly to canon then pretty much everyone would be flying a Sovereign for the most part. She is the power house of the Federation. The major problem with STO, I think, is that it's really more about the BO powers than the ship itself.

Edit: minor wording corrections
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
06-09-2011, 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94P
If things were done properly to canon then pretty much everyone would be flying a Sovereign for the most part. She is the power house of the Federation. The major problem with STO, I think, is that it's really more about the BO powers than the ship itself.

Edit: minor wording corrections
not exactly, people greatly overestimate the sovereigns capabilities, and greatly underestimate the galaxy. but that's understandable, the ENT-D was always writen as the underdog of every episode, they thought that was good story telling, regardless of what its capabilities are.

the sovereign is a very large, very advanced heavy cruiser, its the excelsior of its time. it was designed to fill the hole that had opened over the years were a formidable heavy cruiser should be, because the previous designs that filled that role were too old and too outdated to fill that role any longer. the galaxy is a luxury battleship, designed maybe to decadently, but its weapons were by far the most powerful and dangerous in starfleet.

a per canon sovereign should be very maneuverable, like 10 or 11 turn rate. fire 1 fairly heavy beam from its main arrays in a 285 degree arc, fire up to 2 much lighter shots from smaller rear arrays in the aft 75 degree arc, and fire 2 or 3 torpedoes almost contently. in combat it could fairly quickly wear down most any opponent, but it doesn't have the super heavy weapons that a D'derderex, Neg'Var, or Galaxy does.

a galaxy, compared to a sovereign, should fly and turn much slower, turn rate of around 8. it should fire 1 extremely power shot from its main arrays in a 320 degree firing arc, fire up to 2 much lighter shots from smaller rear arrays in the aft 40 degree arc, and every couple of seconds fire 5-8 torpedoes from ether fore or aft. no small ships could withstand very many shots from its main array, and the fact that its a weapon that heavy with a firing arc that large almost isn't fare. its in league with the klingon's Neg'Var under slung super heavy disruptor cannons that shattered DS9's shields and the romulan's D'derderex super heavy disruptor cannon that destroyed DS9 in a decloak alpha strike in that one episode. the galaxies main arrays are in league with them, though it is in 3rd place as far as output goes. but the fact it can leverage its full firepower in almost every direction is why starfleet uses arrays like that and why they are so dangerous.

those 2 ships could be balanced against each other in game, the could probably be made to deal about the same damage over time, just going about it slightly differently. a galaxies superior spike damage could be balanced by the fact that its a sitting duck most of the time and vulnerability to an escorts sneak attack wile a sovereign would be much harder to pin down and catch off guard.

i would start from there and balance everything else with those 2 ships as a starting point, and BO station setups would get a massive overhaul

oh ya this is a Galaxy X thread... well the lance is redundant because the main array is all the fire power the ship needs, and the 3rd Nacelle... not necessary ether.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
06-09-2011, 11:00 AM
I've just had a thought: It seems really odd, that the Galaxy X, a super upgraded Galaxy, is at the same tier as the Galaxy R, which for all intents and purposes is just a Galaxy, but a bit better. At some point, we can expect Tier 6 though. If the Galaxy X was bumped up to tier 6, it could be what it's "meant" to be in my eyes without suddenly kicking game balance when it's already down so to speak.

It could be given a decent manouverability buff to represent a far more advanced RCS system, greater sector space speed for the third nacelle would be "default" becasue it'd be at a higher tank then, and the lance could be reworked a little to be useful, lastly it's baseline stats moved into line with tier 6 cruisers, in whatever shape they take.

This would also allieviate the problem of "I paid 2000 AT for endgame content that's not endgame anymore". Thoughts? Have I lost the plot, or is this a decenti dea?
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