Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
06-09-2011, 12:42 PM
Its really not as complex as people are making it sound. A cruiser is going to behave the same regardless of who is captain. The majority of a ships effectiveness is in its weapons and bridge officer arrangement. And this doesn't change with the captain type.

The only things that should factor into your choice are the few useful captain skills. In your case not being an Engineer will cost you that skills. Rotate Shield Frequency, EPS Power Transfer, Nadion Inversion, and Miracle Worker. All powerful defense and healing skills. but they will be replaced with Attack Pattern Alpha, Fire on my Mark, Tactical Initiative, and Go down fighting. If the loss or having any of these skills is a deal breaker for you then so should the build.

The only other minor consideration to factor in is officer training. Youll find as a tac officer training your BO's in the rare trainable tier 3 skills a real pain without the support of friends or a guild. Alone this can be a major hurdle and source of frustration. With a good network of help and friends this is a non factor.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
06-09-2011, 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captnwan View Post
Its really not as complex as people are making it sound. A cruiser is going to behave the same regardless of who is captain. The majority of a ships effectiveness is in its weapons and bridge officer arrangement. And this doesn't change with the captain type.

The only things that should factor into your choice are the few useful captain skills. In your case not being an Engineer will cost you that skills. Rotate Shield Frequency, EPS Power Transfer, Nadion Inversion, and Miracle Worker. All powerful defense and healing skills. but they will be replaced with Attack Pattern Alpha, Fire on my Mark, Tactical Initiative, and Go down fighting. If the loss or having any of these skills is a deal breaker for you then so should the build.

The only other minor consideration to factor in is officer training. Youll find as a tac officer training your BO's in the rare trainable tier 3 skills a real pain without the support of friends or a guild. Alone this can be a major hurdle and source of frustration. With a good network of help and friends this is a non factor.
I do agree with most of what you have posted but as for tier 3 skills. You can ask someone to train your BO in those skills and you may just find out that a lot of the skills you trained your captain in help those tier 3 Bo skills.
The only real difference is if the captain has or has not maxed or close to it the engine performance, anything to do with Direct energy modulation , eject the warp core skills. I have found that once I added points to all those my weapons and speed, turn rate was way better in all three ship types. I find this to be really unfair in many ways. If your in an escort you have to add points to engine performance and all you get is emergency power to engines 1 or 2 but it still work very well even if you don't. The thing is if you don't you will not have so good of a turn rat as well as engine efficiency. my tactical has to have high engine power settings to have a decent rate and in a cruise it has to be set at 60 it that cruiser turns slower than a carrier. other than that cruisers are awesome for any officer type
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
06-09-2011, 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by segma View Post
Technically, Picard was a science officer in a cruiser. Mackenzie Calhoun (from New Frontier) is a tactical officer in a cruiser though (Ambassador class Excalibur and Galaxy II (Galaxy Retrofit?) class Excalibur-A). The times Riker was in charge, he'd be a tactical officer in a cruiser.. or tactical officer in a science vessel, if you follow Star Trek: Titan.

It's just that, prior to 2409 (where Star Trek Online takes place), if you were in charge of a starship, it didn't matter what division and colours you wore prior. You wore red. Or, in Kirk's era, gold.
I wouldnt say that there is such thing as a "Captain Class" in the Canon universe.... I mean sure, I'd consider Picard a "Science officer"; but Riker? If I had a Choice id consider him an Tatical like you do, but just because of the lack of any other "spezialisatiion".
Sisko? He did build the Defaint himself (well at last he had a major role in the development), but he doesnt seem like an enginier to me.
Those "Classes" in the way STO has it are necessary for the game but you cant compare it to the Canon verse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by captnwan View Post
Its really not as complex as people are making it sound. A cruiser is going to behave the same regardless of who is captain. The majority of a ships effectiveness is in its weapons and bridge officer arrangement. And this doesn't change with the captain type.

The only things that should factor into your choice are the few useful captain skills. In your case not being an Engineer will cost you that skills. Rotate Shield Frequency, EPS Power Transfer, Nadion Inversion, and Miracle Worker. All powerful defense and healing skills. but they will be replaced with Attack Pattern Alpha, Fire on my Mark, Tactical Initiative, and Go down fighting. If the loss or having any of these skills is a deal breaker for you then so should the build.

The only other minor consideration to factor in is officer training. Youll find as a tac officer training your BO's in the rare trainable tier 3 skills a real pain without the support of friends or a guild. Alone this can be a major hurdle and source of frustration. With a good network of help and friends this is a non factor.
Sorry but that is ********. The Captain abilitys like Attack pattern Alpha,EPS transfer, rotate shield frequence, go down fighting ect ect ect have a large impact. That IS a major difference.
Also you have small bonuses with every class, Enginiers have a little more damage resistence (or more hull?), science a little more shield and Tacs a little more damage. Those bonuses a really just "a little", but often enough, in a balanced fight "a little" is what makes the difference.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
06-09-2011, 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstAngelus View Post


Sorry but that is ********. The Captain abilitys like Attack pattern Alpha,EPS transfer, rotate shield frequence, go down fighting ect ect ect have a large impact. That IS a major difference.
Also you have small bonuses with every class, Enginiers have a little more damage resistence (or more hull?), science a little more shield and Tacs a little more damage. Those bonuses a really just "a little", but often enough, in a balanced fight "a little" is what makes the difference.
First off, the bonuses you mention come with the ship not the captain.

And while I agree the captain skills are major skills. They are not a major part of combat. We are only talking four skills here. Of those four not all are that useful and beyond that most have such long cool downs as to only be useful a few times over a succession of engagements.

The main primary focuses of combat do not change with captain type. If a tac captain and engineer both spec the same skills their ships will end up with the same power levels, the same shield and hull health, and their officers powers will have the same impact and effectiveness.

So while having Miracle worker is a good skill to have. Most will agree generic skills like Aux2Structure, Engineering team, and Emergency power to shields will be used more often and have more impact over the fight then any of the captains powers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35 Tac + Cruiser opinion
06-09-2011, 12:42 PM
Here is my throw in on this. First, i'm Very new player. less than 2 weeks. I thought I'd be neat and use a cruiser + tac officer with good weaapons on my heavy armored ship. It was fail. Pure Fail.
I could barely solo 3 even con enemies, and even when I did it took 10 minutes to kill them.

I bought a 2nd ship (thank you exchange!) and got a proper escort class, with full mk 4 weapons and consoles, and was able to use my tac bo in the LT slot and What a difference it makes. I can clear a 3 spawn of +1 cruisers or battleships in under 3 minutes. I'm fast, I hit hard and that heavy payload torpedo is just amazing.

I figure, if I want to tank, i can always create an engineering officer, (which i did with my klingon).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
06-09-2011, 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Barbour
Going off the top of my head:

Sci: Tachyon Beam is great, especially if you pop an Aux battery. Feedback Pulse is a nice counter to enemy attacks and can help chip away at the shields
Tact: Beam Array: Overload, Beam Target Subsytems: Shields
Eng: Directed Energy Modulation (penetrates the shield more so you do more direct hull damage), EPtW will help boost your weapons dps and, therefore, take more shield with it.
i actually use DEM and BAO already, but ill give those other ones a look, thanks.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
06-09-2011, 12:42 PM
To this thread i say that A tactical can play just fine in a Cruiser if YOU,The Captain do all of these things:

1.Have the right BO Skills to get the job done! - You must think of what type of
Cruiser Setup you will use I.e Beam Boat or Turret Tank .You have to
make sure that you are using the appropriate Powers for the type of
ship your are using.
2. Spec your Character to reflect this change! - As we all know,the skills
of your Captain have a direct impact on certain abilities of your BO's.
Knowing this you have to see what Skill affect which Power and
Spec accordingly.
3. Know your Ship's Equipment!! - Ever hear the old saying "the right tool
for the job"? That's what you are going to have to do.

If you can do these things you will do fine .
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
06-09-2011, 12:42 PM
Quote:
Actually you did, a little skill called Fire on my mark. And while Rotate shields is a very nice skill to buff your shield resistance, its not the only skill that dose so. And it has no effect on hull resistance. FOM on the other hand is a direct resistance debuff, that effects both hull and shields, and benefits everyone on the team as well.
Let's not forget that it also lowers cloaking abilities, so....

Personally, I run a tac/cruiser. I'm Captain 5 at the moment and use a standard Galaxy.
While I don't PVP much, I've think that there are some BO skills that I use that would translate well into PVP.
Obviously, Beam Array: Overload and it's kinetic counterpart, High Yield Torpedo are good at quick bursts of high damage.
In the Science slot I've got Hazard Emitters and Science Team. These are essential, not just for the regen they give your hull and shields respectively, but they also remove crippling debuffs such as Subnucleonic Beam.
Engineer slots go to (in no particular order) Emergency Power to Weps , Emergency Power to Shields, Energy Modulation, Eject Warp Plasma. Somewhere in there I've even got a spot for Reverse Shield Polarity, which believe you me can be a real lifesaver when you're surrounded on all sides.
Weapons wise I'm using 2 beam arrays, one DBB and a quantum torpedo on the front on the ass end it's a beam array, a tetryon turret and either a chronometiric torpedo, or if I'm feeling especially nasty, a plasma torpedo.
HYT plasma can drain shields in a heartbeat and leave that uncomfortable burning sensation, but due to their fragile nature I only use those at close range, say after I've activated EWP and proceeded to run over my target like a semi on a freeway...
So, yeah, that's my 2 ec. But remember, if you like the build, run with it. Doesn't matter what I or anyone else says. Just have fun!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
06-09-2011, 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captnwan View Post
Actually you did, a little skill called Fire on my mark. And while Rotate shields is a very nice skill to buff your shield resistance, its not the only skill that dose so. And it has no effect on hull resistance. FOM on the other hand is a direct resistance debuff, that effects both hull and shields, and benefits everyone on the team as well.
Actually, FoMM doesn't affect Shield Damage Reduction (often mistakenly referred to as 'resistance'), it only provides a hull resistance debuff. That being said, it is still a phenomenal ability, especially on an Excelsior that can chain Beam: Overload, thereby (usually) smacking their target's hull for a considerable amount of punishment...

Although FoMM is a good skill, RSF is one of the best tanking powers in the game, with proper skills, granting a 45+% Shield Damage Reduction and large HoT (both lasting 30 seconds), this ability is Transfer Shield Strength on steroids and HGH.

That being said, a Tactical Captain in a Cruiser (particularly in the Excelsior-R) is both a viable and terrifying opponent. Although they are squishier than Cruisers commanded by Engineers, in a team setting, with adequate support, they can be the most fearsome foe on the field.


Just my 2 EC worth,
-Big Red


If you ever have a chance to see a fellow named Hozz in PvP with or against you... He is a Tactical Captain that drives an all-beam Excelsior-R... And he is S C A R Y... There's a reason they call him 'The Hammer'.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40 I love it
06-09-2011, 12:42 PM
To be fair...I am new to the game and just made commander today so I can't speak for a Tac/Cruiser combo later in the game but so far I love it. PVE.....SO EASY!

PVP: I loved at least the LTC rank version. I Stocked up on 4 beam arrays just common ones, nothing fancy, maxed out anything that helpmed me with dmg and helped me survive turtling. Didn't worry about ground combat, and didn't worry about science stuff and focused on manuever last.

My Buiild: four Beam arrays, beam bonus on tac station, the shield that gives you a ton of points (over 5,000) But slow recharge. My Tac officer has Beam Overload, my two engineers emergency power to shileds, the skill that lets you fix hulls, and the skill that makes phaser energy recharge your shields. on science jam weapons.

I noticed quickly that typical PvP cruisers get saved for last...opposing players don't think you pack the pucn to be a threat, provide significant bufffs to the other excorts, are the hardest to kill. Probably not a bad thought.....however, All I would do was put all power to weapons, circle above my fellow players (almost always excorts), wait for the klingons to uncloak, and then fire away at them. My target would depend on who was the closest to dying, or who was the most threating or whatever the situation warrented. Here is the thing, I could take stock of the entire fight, and then fire with enough fire power to wipe out shields in seconds on the escorts and start eating into the hull. After the shileds were down and my escort companions and I had them weak enough... an attack patter alpha + Beam overload sent most BoP to pieces.

Heres the thing My DPS in BURST wasn't nearly as good....but I coudl see the whole battle field and target at any given time what was best to be targeted. I was a constant, never ending stream of pain on whatever enemy was in most need of being targeted at any given time. It was very effective and I was constantly number 1 and number 2 on DPS. And here the thing....your DPS output is enough that and escort can't just ignore you....they have to really think about whether to continue an atttack or break offf.

Now, onto the other consideration: once they notice your a tac cruiser you become target #1....I can tell you this is accurate. HOWEVER, it is GOOD if you are target number one. 1v1 A tac/Cruiser knocks an escort out of space.....your DPS isn't THAT much lower over the long fight, and I never had a problem mainting my health while eating a lone escort to pieces. 1v2 (escorts) it often handleds just fine as well....which I think speaks to the build. The trick is knowing when to use your powers and when not....as soon as one of your shiled sides gets knocked out by an escort alpha strike, immediatly put emergency power to shileds and strat transferring power to the weak side while you start the wheel of death. Rebuild hull when needed...and keep balancing shileds all while firing away right about the time it looks like your shields are going to start failing youu modulate your shileds...Suddenly now all that DPS is working FOR you instead of against you! instant recharge!! All the while you've been beaming the 'you know what' out of the escort(s). 1v1...it doesn't even take all that....the lone escort just isn't a threat... I have done 1v2 on escorts and won many times using this tecknique (albeit it can get close).

SO this is when they really get mad and just try and go after you first....kinda sucks for you...yes....but here is the thing-- this build will let you survive long tnough for you escort buddies to eat the bad guys for lunch. THrow all power to shilelds and try and live for as long as possible. Yes you die, but you tend to return to the scene as the sole casualty to a general wipe of the opposing force since you fellow companions could simply focus on killing the bad guys as they tried to kill you. . 4 points for 1 defeat is a good exchange. Plus they learn not to do it again, so you don't have to keep dying for the sake of the team.

Anyways that has been my basic strategy. I will let you know how it holds up in later tiers....but I designed my build off the whoe idea that it would be an escort killer.....so far it has provent to be so. We'll see how the idea holds up down the road. As for other cruisers..1v1, I haven't had any issues with them either, they just jake a long time to kill.... I could see a high DPS narrow arc cruiser doing the job....but it would be close.
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