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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
06-08-2011, 10:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakuzma View Post
ok i know you mainly mean space when you ask this, but GROUND has the longest wait times, doesnt matter if your Fed or Klingon, they both have a long wait time, there is times i will be in the que for at least 3+ hrs and still have no pop, so yea GROUND is the worst!
I totally agree with you there Cakuzma.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
06-08-2011, 11:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakuzma View Post
ok i know you mainly mean space when you ask this, but GROUND has the longest wait times, doesnt matter if your Fed or Klingon, they both have a long wait time, there is times i will be in the que for at least 3+ hrs and still have no pop, so yea GROUND is the worst!
That may change if the Season 4 ground changes are actually any good. I still have my doubts, but hey, who knows.. maybe something good will come out of season 4.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
06-09-2011, 05:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gx4th View Post
We all know it was the money...

In the beginning, there was FvK

The average joe feddie complained how he would die so easily in FvK

Instead of wanting to get better as an individual, he would rather face opponents that were as fragile as him

Cryptic obliged. Why would they say "no" to their larger customer base?

Voila, FvF

This is why I like the good fed premade teams. They might be tough to fight against, but I'm glad they're tough so that they can further irritate joe feddie.
Nope it was because of the cloak, then FvF was formed then feds got cloaks Average Joe Feddie went leveled an alto to grind the same uninspired PvE content and PvP withered on the vine.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
06-09-2011, 06:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilawpilath View Post
That may change if the Season 4 ground changes are actually any good. I still have my doubts, but hey, who knows.. maybe something good will come out of season 4.
I hope the new LolGround content doesn't make the space ques longer
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
06-09-2011, 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amidoinitright View Post
I hope the new LolGround content doesn't make the space ques longer



you are joking right, maybe for week yeah then everyone will realize all the same stupid exploits are present like turrets above doors, geometry glitches that allow people to take advantage of them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
06-09-2011, 02:34 PM
I've been waiting since October 2010 for a Shantytown map.

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
06-11-2011, 08:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gx4th View Post
We all know it was the money...

In the beginning, there was FvK

The average joe feddie complained how he would die so easily in FvK

Instead of wanting to get better as an individual, he would rather face opponents that were as fragile as him

Cryptic obliged. Why would they say "no" to their larger customer base?

Voila, FvF

This is why I like the good fed premade teams. They might be tough to fight against, but I'm glad they're tough so that they can further irritate joe feddie.
Nice story.

But let me tell you this: FvF queues helped me a great deal in improving my own skill. FvK was, at the time, a bad learning environment for a Fed player with casual interest in PvP, for the following reasons:
  • (1) Player skill disparity: PvP-focused players and fleets were much more common on the Klingon side than the Federation side. The thing is, there is not much benefit to playing a match where one side clearly outclasses the other. An inexperienced team simply won't be able to pick up anything useful from a match played against a much more skilled and coordinated team, they will just get roflstomped before they can even understand how it happened.
    Just like how some amateur basketball team of random people wouldn't get much useful experience out of a match against the LA Lakers (if the latter don't hold back). If all I see is that I don't stand a chance no matter what I do, then I won't know how to improve.
  • (2) Imbalance for PuGs: Now, I never thought cloaking was an I-win-button; I was reading the forums, and all experienced PvPers who played in PvP fleets seemed to agree on that.
    However: in a PuG vs. PuG match, cloaking allowed the Klingon team a higher level of coordination: they were free to discuss tactics or wait for their team to get to the full number in the safety of their cloak, with no risk of getting attacked in a vulnerable state.
    Also, a successful decloaking alpha strike would (again, in PuG matches) usually be decisive, as the Fed team would be one man down AND still scrambling to get their bearing. Any newbie in such a situation will be put in a defensive mindset, completely focused on desperately trying to keep himself alive for just a few more seconds, instead of taking time to analyze the situation - again, this doesn't help with learning.
  • (3) Slow queues: Due to the population imbalance, a lot more Feds than Klingons were queuing for PvP at any given time. This meant that a Fed player could get into less matches than a Klingon, meaning less opportunities for practice.

Having an environment where I would usually face players of similar skill level, with the same ships available for both teams, provided me with a much better starting point to learn playing PvP. Finally, I could follow the pace of the game! Finally, I could see what was effective against my opponent and what wasn't!

I kept playing FvK as well, and the average quality of players who dared go up against the Klinks went up noticeably. Less Fed players were refusing team invites, full impulsing into battle, fighting alone etc.

And the "FvF killing FvK" argument I see so often? That didn't happen, not for a long time. As long as PvP participation was high, I was seeing the same tendency as before: always more Feds in the FvK queue than Klingons. I always queued for both FvK and FvF, and FvF always popped earlier than FvK. Sure, FvK Arena queues might have looked like 26 4 before the introduction of FvF, and 12 4 after it, but it was still the Feds who were waiting for an opponent. When I was playing my first Klingon character (created somewhere between Season 1 and Season 2), I never had to wait as long for PvP as on my Fed.

Recently though, with PvP participation diminishing in general, I agree that the separate queues are a problem. And the issues with FvK no longer apply today:
  • (1) KDF side has more less skilled players now, and Fed premades are also more common. Faction and skill level don't correlate as strongly anymore.
  • (2) Both Feds and Klingons have a mix of cloaking and non-cloaking ships now (the Vo'Quv has always been there, sure, but it wasn't viable in the early days - I barely ever saw it in Arenas). Although this is only true for Tier 5...
(3) however, could resurface if we just remove FvF and return to a FvK-only system. Instead, I'd like to see a combined queue that launches matches between teams of any faction - this way, no-one has to wait for a match in vain. Cryptic will have to move to such a system when they design the Romulan faction anyway, otherwise we end up with 6 different queues, none of them popping, ever .
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