Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Ship Size Comparison Chart
06-13-2011, 03:43 PM
This is a repost of my Ship Size Comparison Chart, which I originally posted in the Academy forum. While SpiderMitch's Ship Chart is really cool and complete, it doesn't really show the sizes of the various ships against each other. (By intention, he has said, so I'm glad I could fill in that gap) Since we now have a single Federation ship forum, and this might get sticked, I thought I'd repost it.

Federation Ship Size Comparison Chart
Klingon Ship Size Comparison Chart

This is taken from ingame, and all screenshots were taken at a standard distance (I edited a demo) so it should be completely accurate. I added some ship lengths that I researched from Memory Alpha and some other places, and it actually seemed to be pretty accurate. There were some discrepancies, but for the most part I was able to relate length in pixels to meters, which is how I estimated the sizes for those that I could not find listed.

Both a Federation and a Klingon version are included, although I included some Fed ships in the Klingon chart for comparison purposes. The Klingon ships get WAY bigger than the Federation with those carriers, and so their chart is to a smaller scale. (The smallest ships may be a bit harder to see)

Also, just for grins, I've added this chart with the Multi Vector Assault Mode sections, as well as some ships in that range (and the assembled ship) for reference.

Multi Vector Assault Mode Comparison Chart
Also, for more grins, Corrected Shuttle and Defiant Chart

UPDATE LOG:
  • FED 1.6 - Added Odyssey Cruiser.
  • FED 1.5 - Added background grid. Added Class F Shuttle and Peregrine Fighter. Corrected name of Dervish to Hermes and Destiny to Trident. Corrected Hermes nacelles, changing Hermes' estimated size and order in chart. Corrected spelling of Saber.
  • FED 1.4 - Added Oberth
  • MVAM 1.0 - Initial revision, to display Prometheus MVAM sections.
  • FED 1.3 - Changed yellow lighting to blue. (changed to Earth sector for screenshots)
  • KDF 1.0 - Initial revision, including 18 KDF ships, 2 shuttles, 2 fighters (from the carriers) and 6 Fed ships for comparison.
  • FED 1.2 - Reordered ships in strict order of length.
  • FED 1.1 - Removed lens flare. Added Delta Flyer and Tal'Kyr shuttles. Doubled up shuttle section. Corrected Assault Cruiser appearance from Noble to Sovereign, and corrected several canon lengths. Corrected Defiant to Tier 4/5.
  • FED 1.0 - Initial revision, including 23 ships and 3 shuttes. Ships are in order of estimated mass.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
06-13-2011, 03:44 PM
To provide a bit more information, the above was produced by using a demo, and capturing screenshots at a constant distance, so perspective and other issues do not come into play. I also made very precise measurements of game coordinates, to ensure that my in game lengths were consistent. Then then produced a graphical chart, in which I plot the in game length of each ship against the best known canon length. In the case where they was no canon length (indicated by "~" above for an approximation) I made that approximation based on my chart.

Here is a link to an image I made of the chartt. ShipSizeGraph

The graph shows that, when it comes to the relation of ship sizes to each other, I think the devs did a pretty consistent job. The scale of the ships to the environment may be off, and shuttles are off as per the devs themselves, (notice the alternate scaling line for shuttles) but for the most part each ship sits right on the line. Any inconstencies that players may have noted, I think, may be due to perspective errors, thinking that another ship is larger or smaller than your because of the different angles.

There are three fairly large exceptions. One is the Defiant, of course. It is much too large for its official size. But even that is not consistent, some sources have the Defiant as small as 90 meters, or as large as 150. The devs my have settled for 150 just to give it more visibility.

The other interesting "errors" are the Sabre, and Akira, both Escorts. In both cases, the devs made them smaller than canon. The Sabre matches the Defiant at 150 meters, while the Akira seems to be about 400-415 meters long in game, in place of 440 meters. I'm not sure whether the devs made them smaller to make them more escort-like, or just had different sources for the lengths.

The larger ships also seem to be a little off, but not more than about 10 meters. (And in fact, my first pass had them right on the line, but as I made some changes to confirmed my figures Excel recalculated the line and moved up a bit) The Nova may be off by about 2 meters, and the Nebula seems a bit off as well. But that is not as much as the big three above.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
06-13-2011, 03:58 PM
Post for future edit: I will probably move the MVAM Chart here.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
06-14-2011, 04:56 AM
Nice work. Be interesting to see a ship size chart for all the ships in game, including all the variants of the various classes.

Kind of hilarious how big the shuttles are in game. Then again, as shown in your shuttle chart, if they were "actual size," you wouldn't be able to see them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
06-14-2011, 09:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archanubis
Nice work. Be interesting to see a ship size chart for all the ships in game, including all the variants of the various classes.

Kind of hilarious how big the shuttles are in game. Then again, as shown in your shuttle chart, if they were "actual size," you wouldn't be able to see them.
http://www.suricatafx.com/wp-content...rchart_wip.jpg

Currently revamping my ship tier chart to have pictures instead of the side views I'd drawn, will be adding the shuttles to it and was thinking of actually enemy ships as well :-P
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
06-14-2011, 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archanubis
Nice work. Be interesting to see a ship size chart for all the ships in game, including all the variants of the various classes.
Yeah, there are definately variations in size, which could effect the "order" of similar sized ships. (Such as the Prometheus and Cheyenne) However, my purpose was to create a quick chart which gave the closest direct comparison between the most ships in the least amount of space. Adding all the variants would have made the chart too big for such a direct comparison.

I like Suricata's chart, though. Although it's not as clear when it comes to direct comparison, it's organized more like SpiderMitch's chart. (Or the other way around; I remember that old chart ) I would suggest adding numeric lengths, even if you have to use an estimate. Or, maybe a ruler across the top of each ship class, with perhaps a grid line every 100 meters or so. Of course, that's assuming you want to use a consistent scale, or to even bother with that...

I came up with a formula for converting from game coordinates to meters, I will try to post it here, as well as my table of in game coordinates. I basically collected those by going into the demo and placing cameras at the front and rear points of the ship to record their coordinates. But obviously collecting those coordinates for ALL the ships in game will add drastically to the time this will take.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
06-14-2011, 09:53 AM
Just as a small note, the scaling of the Defiant is not incorrect in-game. The scaling of the Defiant varies from episode to episode. Memory Alpha explains it in detail:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Memory Alpha
According to Hutzel, during the early development stages of the ship, the Defiant was to be "a new hot battleship that would really set a new standard for an action ship in the series. First, there was lots of talk like 'How big is the Defiant?' Well, we'll make it really small and really powerful, that it would be so powerful and scary, nobody would mess with it." (USS Defiant, DS9 Season 3 DVD special features)
According to Doug Drexler, "The size of the Defiant was a hot potato from day one. Rick Berman wanted a small pocket battleship (a couple times longer than a runabout, with the girth of a regular starship), Gary wanted at least 500' [152.4 m]." [4]

The scale of the CGI mesh, according to a post in the newsgroup nntp://alt.tv.star-trek.ds9, by DS9 Visual Effects Supervisor David Stipes, was 560' (170.7 m), the length used when he blocked shots in DS9. This was also the size established in the DS9 Technical Manual.


MSD depicting early design for the Defiant-class
The original MSD that appeared in "The Search, Part I" actually depicted an early concept design and did not represent the final product. It was later replaced with an accurate MSD in such episodes as "Shattered Mirror", although it was used on displays until the end of Deep Space Nine. Drexler, who was responsible for creating the ship's MSD, rationalized "a 420′ [128.0 m] Defiant." [5]
For further analysis on the Defiant's scaling, visit the "Defiant Problems" link at Ex Astris Scientia below.

The following details and specifications comes exclusively from the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Technical Manual:
Specifications
Production Base: ASDB Integration Facility, Antares Fleet Yards, Antares IV
Type: Escort
Accommodation: 40 officers and crew; 150 personal evacuation limit
Power Plant: One 1,500 plus Cochrane warp core feeding two nacelles; two impulse modules
Dimensions: Length, 170.68 meters; beam, 134.11 meters; height: 30.1 meters
Mass: 355,000 metric tonnes
Performance: Warp 9.982 for 12 hours
Armament: Four pulse phaser cannons; two torpedo launchers
So depending on where you look, it can be 128m, 152m, or 170m. STO (and apparently CBS) decided to use the middle number.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
06-14-2011, 03:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuatela
Just as a small note, the scaling of the Defiant is not incorrect in-game. The scaling of the Defiant varies from episode to episode. Memory Alpha explains it in detail:
Most of the estimates for the Defiant's size come out on the low side of 150 meters, and Ex Astris regards it as 120 meters. I see no reason to disagree with STO's compromise, though.

I honestly think the devs don't want to make any normal starship smaller than 150 meters. The Oberth is the only one that breaks that rule, and it's Tier 1. (It is also kind of hard to justify at that size, it really doesn't leave any room for passage between the two hulls)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
06-14-2011, 03:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blayyde
I like Suricata's chart, though. Although it's not as clear when it comes to direct comparison, it's organized more like SpiderMitch's chart. (Or the other way around; I remember that old chart ) I would suggest adding numeric lengths, even if you have to use an estimate. Or, maybe a ruler across the top of each ship class, with perhaps a grid line every 100 meters or so. Of course, that's assuming you want to use a consistent scale, or to even bother with that...
The grid on the background actually does represent 100m, although the image I posted is a rough mockup of the new chart I'm making right now, so some scales are off. The labels on the ships will just retain the c-store price/credits of the ships, although my older version did have ship lengths on it, I got tired of the debates people wanted to have about them :-P
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
06-14-2011, 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suricata View Post
The grid on the background actually does represent 100m, although the image I posted is a rough mockup of the new chart I'm making right now, so some scales are off. The labels on the ships will just retain the c-store price/credits of the ships, although my older version did have ship lengths on it, I got tired of the debates people wanted to have about them :-P
Actually, it looks more like the grids are 50m square. That's quite useful though. As I said above, SpiderMitch has said he wants to stay with the multiple views, so all of the ships can be seen clearly, while obviously if you make all of the ships to scale, the Klingon carriers will be enourmous, while the Defiant will be too small to make out any real details. (And that doesn't even count the shuttles )
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