Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
06-22-2011, 04:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by admneal View Post
Once again, I'm not a newbie.... cruisers have slightly more hull and shields (which is nominal vs the damage output of this game).... healing just buys more time. I'm not suggesting cruisers damage = escorts, but it shouldn't be a game of extremes. A escort should not be able to tank 3 cruisers, a cruiser surely doesn't last long against 3 escorts. I recall a time that an escort would have to at least THINK about doing have the things they are able to do with the Aegis, Borg, etc sets.
Healing doesn't just buy time, since most heals have a resist included. If you really want to be an unstoppable force of nature in a cruiser get 2 copies of EPtS 3, Aux to SIF 3 (it has about 50% uptime and nice hull resistance), APD, Tac Team, and 2 copies of TSS or HE. Chaining EPtS 3 alone will put you beyond the ability of most single escorts to kill. Then just for kicks add in a copy or 2 of RSP 1 -- it doesn't last long but it heals your shields quickly.

Building your cruiser that way will give you crappy DPS and your healing won't be great either, but it won't be worth the effort it takes to kill you. Escorts don't even have the option to build for survival like that.

When I run my healing cruisers, I feel your annoyance at not being able to score kills. But the same escorts that laugh off my cruiser's beams, melt when I hit them with CRF 3, BOv3, and HYT 3 from my escort. My science ship doesn't eat them up quite as fast, but CPB, Target Shields and Tachyon Beam don't really care what a shield's resistance is, they strip everything. One CPB will leave most escorts completely without shields, so as long as someone else is firing on them too the escort will probably die.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
06-22-2011, 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by admneal View Post
Ha, well I guess my eyes deceive me, I have seen escorts do crazy things.... it kills me that you think I just started playing yesterday.
I don't think you just started playing, I just don't think you've been paying attention to your targets getting heals. Escorts don't have enough of the right type of slots to keep their shields hardened 100% of the time. They need to get some help from elsewhere.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
06-22-2011, 04:55 PM
Yeah, I've seen escorts effectively tanking more then one ship for quite some time. Their manoeuvrability combines with their now rather tanky shields (thanks to one of the seasons buffs to shields and hull) to make them far from glass cannons (especially with the Borg procs). Sure, they may not last as long as a cruiser, but nor are they that much easier to destroy. If they do get into trouble and there's no healer, they can happily shoot off to the other side of the map.

Unless you manage to broadside 8 beams, you'll just end up tickling the thing. Even then, some of the tankier escorts could probably shrug it off.

This, combined with their firepower, is not a good mix.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
06-22-2011, 05:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alendiak
Yeah, I've seen escorts effectively tanking more then one ship for quite some time. Their manoeuvrability combines with their now rather tanky shields (thanks to one of the seasons buffs to shields and hull) to make them far from glass cannons (especially with the Borg procs). Sure, they may not last as long as a cruiser, but nor are they that much easier to destroy. If they do get into trouble and there's no healer, they can happily shoot off to the other side of the map.

Unless you manage to broadside 8 beams, you'll just end up tickling the thing. Even then, some of the tankier escorts could probably shrug it off.

This, combined with their firepower, is not a good mix.
You hit the nail on the head
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
06-22-2011, 05:14 PM
The main problem with tanking in an escort is that you often lose damage when trying to run around and survive. A cruiser can effectively tank and dps at the same time, and they frequently get higher damage numbers than escorts because they're constantly pounding people with their beams. Beams don't need any love - I'd say they're right where they should be if you don't take FAW into account.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
06-22-2011, 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTheYak
The main problem with tanking in an escort is that you often lose damage when trying to run around and survive. A cruiser can effectively tank and dps at the same time, and they frequently get higher damage numbers than escorts because they're constantly pounding people with their beams. Beams don't need any love - I'd say they're right where they should be if you don't take FAW into account.
I completely agree on Arrays... but apparently I'm the only person in the world who feels like DBBs need a buff :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
06-22-2011, 05:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTheYak
The main problem with tanking in an escort is that you often lose damage when trying to run around and survive. A cruiser can effectively tank and dps at the same time, and they frequently get higher damage numbers than escorts because they're constantly pounding people with their beams. Beams don't need any love - I'd say they're right where they should be if you don't take FAW into account.
Exactly.

Escorts DO not tank and do crazy cannon dmg. Unless you are a very bad pilot that escort is going to have to either make passes for a shield facing... or do the crazy and slow down or stop (killing defense bonus) to stay on a facing.

I'm not sure the op is playing the same game as the rest of us.

Perhaps what you need to do is look closely at your escorts buff bar... and hit them when there defense is at its lowest... I know it sounds crazy that you should have to think, I mean you likely fly a cruiser and install beams so you don't have to do those sorts of things. (I kid)

Really every this in this game can be made very very tanky for short periods... hit them when they have no EPTS up... or the have EPTS 1 up anyway. Don't waste your beam overloads when you see they have a TSS 2 running.... Understand that if you see a Tac team up you need to burn shields. Perhaps you should help them with that defense value... EWP / Tractor beams / Target Engines... all good ways to kill defense. If you hit them with those things while they don't have a good arc on you, you should be able to do much more dmg.

Also consider that escort you saw tanking like mad... may have had a sci ship or 2 or a cruiser or 2 chucking them heals and such.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
06-22-2011, 05:53 PM
No beams do not need a buff in the slightest. Seriously, my advice for some of you guys would be to ask for some advice in game from some of the pilots who wreck faces in their cruisers. Most good cruiser pilots can tank my damage with little problem unless I can catch them off guard or working with a teammate to coordinate debuffs etc. I can also tell you that my Raptor simply can't stand up to cruisers bumping their heads off the keyboard for too long. I simply do not have that many engineer or science Boffs....2 of each....that really limits what I can do. So hopefully I didn't get anyones panties in a bunch but I really think people should try getting some advice.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
06-22-2011, 05:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alendiak
Yeah, I've seen escorts effectively tanking more then one ship for quite some time. Their manoeuvrability combines with their now rather tanky shields (thanks to one of the seasons buffs to shields and hull) to make them far from glass cannons (especially with the Borg procs). Sure, they may not last as long as a cruiser, but nor are they that much easier to destroy. If they do get into trouble and there's no healer, they can happily shoot off to the other side of the map.

Unless you manage to broadside 8 beams, you'll just end up tickling the thing. Even then, some of the tankier escorts could probably shrug it off.

This, combined with their firepower, is not a good mix.
If you're broadsiding 8 beam, you aren't in a ship designed for killing. Your ships DPS role is to hang in the fight a long time and do sustained damage to the enemy.


EDIT -- is the OP a Tac officer? That can explain a lot about why other ships might seem too resilient in comparison. Tactical officers are squishy in every ship, since Engineer and Science both get multiple captain abilities that can be used in tanking. Generally speaking, Tac needs support from a team to work well, no matter what ship type they are in. Engineers and science officers are both a little more self-sufficient (though engineers sometimes have problems DPSing).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
06-22-2011, 05:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTheYak
The main problem with tanking in an escort is that you often lose damage when trying to run around and survive. A cruiser can effectively tank and dps at the same time, and they frequently get higher damage numbers than escorts because they're constantly pounding people with their beams. Beams don't need any love - I'd say they're right where they should be if you don't take FAW into account.
I think the main thing you neglect is that damage output is so great there's little need to tank.. If beams are so awesome then why don't I see more pure beam escorts?
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