Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
06-22-2011, 11:21 PM
Another thing about cannons is that since they fire faster they proc their special ability more often, especially when combined with CRF.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
06-23-2011, 02:38 AM
I saw this thread and decided to try a single cannon/turret build on my assault cruiser... and I'm having a blast.
It leaves me with out a lot of hull defense because I loaded up with rcs consoles rather than armor so I can keep my nose where it needed to be for the cannons and I don't parse so I have no clue if I'm doing more damage than my beam build was doing.... but it's different.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
06-23-2011, 01:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyllus View Post
I saw this thread and decided to try a single cannon/turret build on my assault cruiser... and I'm having a blast.
It leaves me with out a lot of hull defense because I loaded up with rcs consoles rather than armor so I can keep my nose where it needed to be for the cannons and I don't parse so I have no clue if I'm doing more damage than my beam build was doing.... but it's different.
i used to love my single cannon/turret set up. It just seemed to me that I wasn't really hurting anyone in pvp action.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
06-23-2011, 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whamhammer View Post
i used to love my single cannon/turret set up. It just seemed to me that I wasn't really hurting anyone in pvp action.
If you're in a Cruiser, add DEM to it.

DEM adds each bleedthrough to each shot or 'bolt' fired. With a full Cannon/Turret set up, you're going to have a lot of shots being fired. Add in Rapid Fire, and you can really just melt someone right through their shields.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
06-24-2011, 01:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvs5191 View Post
If you're in a Cruiser, add DEM to it.

DEM adds each bleedthrough to each shot or 'bolt' fired. With a full Cannon/Turret set up, you're going to have a lot of shots being fired. Add in Rapid Fire, and you can really just melt someone right through their shields.
Like this picture suggests :

http://s156.photobucket.com/albums/t...rent=14v15.jpg
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
06-24-2011, 04:52 PM
I've done 8x beams, 4x cannons/4x turrets, 8x turrets, and everything in between...

The major issue is that cruisers don't have the skills and turn rates to be able to utilize cannons effectively. Only excelsior can use 2x rapid fire cannons or other canon-related skills, while the other cruisers are stuck with 2x ensign tac abilities that can't really do much to improve cannon damage.

Firing distance is an issue with non-dual cannons as the damage per shot is reduced to well below what beams can do at long distances. So you loose DPS and effectiveness in general unless your cruiser is right on top of someone running all cannons with rapid fire going at the same time. But thats a rare instance.

If you want to do a "forward-firing-arc" type layout, its best to have a tac officer piloting an Excelsior in order to improve the damage considerably. This is the setup I recommend testing with the Excelsior to see if you like it (Note: Not a PvP layout):

Front - 1x dual beam, 1x beam, 2x quantum
Rear - 3x turret, 1x beam

Tac skills - HY I, HY II, BO III (Even better is - BO I, HY II, HY III to take advantage of the torps).

This layout keeps the shields down enough for the torps to hit hard and do their thing. And with the Beam Overload in pace, you have an extra hard hitting shot to hit when shields drop along with the torps. Its pretty effective, and can out-DPS escorts in fleet actions with a tac officer piloting it.

If you are a Eng or Sci officer, I've found beams are in general still best. You can throw a couple turrets in there if you wish to take advantage of the fire arc and low energy use (IE front and rear - 2x beam, 1x turret, 1x torp) but its pretty easy to combat the power loss of beams with the correct skills/items.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
06-27-2011, 05:58 PM
So what about power drain? Would all four cannons in the front drain 32 power and the three turrets in the rear drain another 24? The whole energy drain idea gets really confusing sometimes? I would this thing combo, especially with cannon rapid fires would totally wipe out energy , leaving me doing a miniscule amounth of damage overall??
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
06-27-2011, 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whamhammer View Post
Hmmm/ maybe I should test the power drain out with some of the older stuff I have. If youre right, that might make cannon cruisers a more consistant damage at an energy setting than a beam cruiser would be. I sed to have fun with the cannon/turret ship, but it seemed as if I wasn't giving as much damage as I am now with the DBB frotn , beam array in the back setup/
If you want to see the energy efficiency of weapons check the link in my signature (either the Guide or you can click on one of the direct power level chart links). I have done extensive testing on this. Cannons are indeed much more energy efficient than beam weapons.

This data is also taken into account with my Starship Weapons Calculator program, if you want to try out some different weapon combinations.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
06-27-2011, 06:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whamhammer View Post
So what about power drain? Would all four cannons in the front drain 32 power and the three turrets in the rear drain another 24? The whole energy drain idea gets really confusing sometimes? I would this thing combo, especially with cannon rapid fires would totally wipe out energy , leaving me doing a miniscule amounth of damage overall??
The way power drain works is that the power doesn't drain out immediately, and then some power comes back when the weapons go into cool down. So, the penalties for firing multiple weapons isn't as large as you'd otherwise think it would be. With cannons and turrets the efficiency of weapons is higher than with beams for various reasons. The details are discussed in much more detail in my guide (too much to rewrite everything here).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
06-28-2011, 08:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whamhammer View Post
Well my current set-up is
Front:
3x Phaser Beam Banks Mk XI, ultra rare, (the bonuses escape me right now, probably whatevers craftable)
1x Quantum Torpedo Launcher MK XI, ultra rare Crit D x 2 dmg x 1

Rear:
3x Phaser Beam Arrays Mk XI, ultra rare, (bonuses escape me, probably what evers craftable)
1x Quantum Torpedo Launcher MK XI, ultra rare Crit D x 2 dmg x 1

I used to have:

Front;

4x Phaser single Cannons Mk XI, ultra rare (craftables)
Rear
3x Phaser Turrets Mk XI, ultra rare (craftables)
1x Phaser Beam Array Mk XI, ultra rare (craftable)

And of course I put corresponding tactical consoles to boost damage

This is on an Excelsior Refit
I tend to change the amount of RCS thruster engineering consoles to match my mood, so I vary between a 14 degree turn rate to a 21 degree turn rate. I did alot more of the 21 degree when I had the that cannon set-up. Ive been looking to find that sweet spot between cruisers and escorts for my tactical guy.
I will say this... I have done some PvP recently in my Multi-Vector and Beam Cruisers cannot scratch me. I can tank them all day long and their Broadside is worthless because they will NEVER get me in their Broadside. However, I have felt the bite of a Cannon Cruiser and while it still was unable to beat me it was a lot more touch and go a few times than the beam boats ever were.

RCS's are also worthless on most Cruisers because they effect what value of turn you currently have which means they are only useful for Sci ships or Escorts who do not need them. On Cruisers their improvement is not noticeable enough to care about. I would stick to using Deterium(SP?) Surplus and Evasive Maneuvers to get a few good shots in on your foe.

The best Cruisers to use for Cannons are the Excelsior for its extra Tactical Abilities and Consoles, The Dreadnaught with its Surprise Cloaking Alpha Strike (Piloted by a Tact and even then you must be able to really FLY it if you want to do this), and the Exploration Refit because once you shed your dead weight it is like a heavy Raptor class ship able to keep people in its sights much better.

Using Directed Energy Modulation and Emergency Power to Weapons III can help those big Cruisers belt out the damage and you may want to consider a Chronoton Torpedo and possibly a Single Mine Launcher of this sort to help slow down your foes.

NEVER mix Beams and Cannons... You cannot possibly spec into both very well and it is not worth it. The only things that should really waste their time with beams (especially when they fix FAW) is Science Vessels who come with their Subsystem Targeting.

I have found 3 Singles and a Torp up front and 4 Turrets in back works well. Also many say Scatter Volley does nothing to a single Target compared to Rapid Fire and they are wrong. I have seen it increase the damage on my own hide and others. The closer you are the better. However Rapid Fire is a little bit better than SV for single Foes.

That is what I have learned on this matter so far. You are more than welcome to play around with any setup your imagination dreams up though and that is part of the fun of games like this IMO. I would mess around with setups until I found exactly what I liked the best.
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