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# 21
06-24-2011, 02:26 AM
I still have my official The Motion Picture blueprint set. According to the Starfleet Intelligence data attached to K't'inga, they were newer designs than the D7 - not refits - and were first constructed sometime previous to TMP (2270's). The armor along the hull was in addition to what the old D-7 carried. They typically patrolled in packs of three. A Refit Constitution - which wasn't a reality until later - was expected to even the odds should it encounter such a pack. The set implied that the K't'inga were nothing to sneeze at. Yet the refit Constitution was expected to be able to take on such a pack all by itself. Though no film or computer game I've experienced ever tried to put that interpretation into practice. :p

Looking at the blueprint set now, I speculate that the K't'inga had ablative armor before Ds9 introduced the buzzword via Defiant. When STO gets around to a retrofit, I'm hopeful for the skin art to be completely redone. The movie model displays placement of the armor plating like a work of engineering art. Ours should look as nice.
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# 22
06-24-2011, 04:49 AM
this is my peased together history of the ktinga's service life, along with what was going on durring that time. the ktinga was introduced as starfleet was starting a major refit initiative to their primary models. a long refit which the klingons decided not to do with their D7, instead making the new ktinga from scratch and later as time allowed uprating D7s. the klingons with these new ktingas planned on making the cold war hot, and before starfleet could complete any refits. on the eve of the offensive the v'ger anomaly was encountered, and several brand new ktingas were lost. soon after, one of the first refit starfleet vessels, the enterprise, encountered and defeated the v'ger anomaly single handedly. intense debates and arguments erupted on what to do next, the klingons ultimatly decide to canceled their attack plan, if starfleets cruisers were now this powerful an attack would be suicide. smaller throw away attack ships would be a better use of resources then trying to compete cruiser to cruiser with the much richer federation. (~2271)

in reality, the constitution refit was a poor match for the ktinga, but that wouldn't be known for sure for another decade after a single ktinga destroyed one relatively easily in a border dispute. most of those that argued not to attack the federation years earlier were ether killed or took their own lives. starfleet already suspected that the ktinga was more dangerous then a connie, starfleets superior sensor scans showed this to be a certainty. next generation weapons and defenses were being refit as ships were returning from 5 year missions, (2279-2283) but the connies limits were starting to show, and projects for newer generation ships were accelerated. the uprated connies were only really a match for the sub ktingas, or uprated D7s now refereed to as D8s.

a few years earlier, the enterprise, one of the oldest heavy cruiser spaceframes still in service, dating back to 2245, was taken off of active duty as admiral kirk retired (that was the retirement kirk was reliving in the nexis) and turned into an academy training ship. (2278) later, kirk came out of retirement (2285) and accompanied the enterprise on a training mission, only to encounter khan and be nearly defeated by him. when the ship returned to space dock, he enquirers if when the enterprise is repaired, will it get the uprating the rest of the fleet got. he is told no, that the enterprise is too old and will actually be decommissioned. the ship is lost soon after it is hijacked by kirk and company.

wile not at war, at this point the klingons and federation have border disputes on a weekly basis, and the small cheap birds of prey are not proving to be as effective at taking out slow federation cruisers as originally predicted, due to the firing arc coverage of the many phaser banks the starfleet ships posses. these weapons are still no match for the heavy disrupters the ktingas carry though. whenever a ktinga is part of one of these battles, starfleet ships need to out number klingon ships to win. (2280-2290) when the excelsior class finally enters service the balance of power is finally tipped again, and the very rich federation finally has the cruiser to beat. the ktinga, after 30 years, is finally outclassed. many klingon historians look back on this as the era of missed opportunity, if only they had fully committed to conquest. what only the oldest historians know is that during this period most of the klingon population had not yet recovered from the augment genetic virus, and there was still fear in their hearts. this was the beginning of the end for the connie, starfleet didn't need a medium cruiser between the Miranda and excelsior class, and as their tours of duty were complete they were taken out of service. (~2310)

when the klingons regained there true nature they readied for full scale war. they were overzealous, and over mined until praxis exploded, potentially crippling the empire on the eve of conquest. the decades that followed were relatively peaceful with the federation, the opportunity to defeat them had passed, and the romulans had stepped up their harassment in the klingons weakened state. (2293-2340s)

it wasn't until the 2340s that the klingon empire was strong again, and new generations of ships, not just refits, were launched. at this point the ktinga was still a powerful cruiser, but mid pack, and not top of the line. by the 2360s the newest bird of prey destroyer variants were outclassing old klingon cruisers like the ktingas in firepower and durability, the design was reaching its limits. by the dominion war they were little more then light cruisers, some converted into heavy weapon cradles to add fire support in fleet actions.


the ktinga, miranda, constitution and excelsior being in this game at all is laughable. they all reached the end of their functional service life's 100-30 years before this game takes place. i could see the ktinga being a tier 1 light cruiser, along with the scout bird of prey but that's still a stretch. it was a mistake to ether include all these ships in game AND have it take place 30 years after nemisis. they should have chose 1 or the other.
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# 23
06-24-2011, 07:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
...
the ktinga, miranda, constitution and excelsior being in this game at all is laughable. they all reached the end of their functional service life's 100-30 years before this game takes place. i could see the ktinga being a tier 1 light cruiser, along with the scout bird of prey but that's still a stretch. it was a mistake to ether include all these ships in game AND have it take place 30 years after nemisis. they should have chose 1 or the other.
This was a really good post, and if my mind hadn't changed this would likely've done it. I think rather than "actual" K'tinga, something clearly inspired by it, but bigger, meaner, and more advanced while retaining almost the exact same lines. Dare I say it, a somewhat JJ'fied version.
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# 24
06-24-2011, 07:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebeneezergoode
This was a really good post, and if my mind hadn't changed this would likely've done it. I think rather than "actual" K'tinga, something clearly inspired by it, but bigger, meaner, and more advanced while retaining almost the exact same lines. Dare I say it, a somewhat JJ'fied version.
there has to be something between the ktinga and the vorcha, something introduced around the same time as the ambassador class. that theoretical ship would be perfect. the death rite from legacy is what i figure it would look like
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# 25
06-24-2011, 08:50 AM
dontdrunkimshoot, could you please share with us where some of your information regarding the difference in performance between the K't'inga and the Constitution come from, what border incident you're refrring to and where it was ever stated that the K't'inga is called D8 or that it was an entirely new constuction?
Some of it reminds me of Klingon Academy while other stuf for example totally contradicts the old 1980's FASA material, which made it pretty clear the K't'inga was not a 1-on-1 match for the Constitution.
I'd be very curious which soft/non canon material you used as background.
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# 27
06-24-2011, 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirian_darkstar View Post
Beautiful.
Too bay Cryptic can't use it.
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# 28
06-24-2011, 11:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
Beautiful.
Too bay Cryptic can't use it.
i know right
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
dontdrunkimshoot, could you please share with us where some of your information regarding the difference in performance between the K't'inga and the Constitution come from, what border incident you're refrring to and where it was ever stated that the K't'inga is called D8 or that it was an entirely new constuction?
Some of it reminds me of Klingon Academy while other stuf for example totally contradicts the old 1980's FASA material, which made it pretty clear the K't'inga was not a 1-on-1 match for the Constitution.
I'd be very curious which soft/non canon material you used as background.
The D-8 is the fourth and final iteration on the classic Dírell type hull whose evolution apparently began with the D-4. It is for all intents and purposes a heavily uprated D-7, with an improved shielding system and photon torpedoes in place of its disruptors. Coupled with the Dírell hullís proven maneuverability these upgrades make the D-8 a worthy foe for Star Fleetís new linear warp refitted starships.
The D-8 was first seen in action during the VíGer Crisis of 2267. As VíGer made its way across Klingon space a trio of D-8 battlecruisers unsuccessfully attempted to engage it near the Organian Treaty Zone. All three vessels were destroyed in the process; however, extensive intelligence was gathered on the encounter by the nearby Epsilon 9 monitor station (which was itself destroyed by VíGer shortly thereafter). Analysis of the data confirmed that the Klingons were keeping pace with Federation starship technology and that in a fair fight the D-8 would prove to be a formidable opponent. In practice the D-8 has proven to be the Klingon equivalent of the Enterprise class heavy cruiser, once again establishing relative parity between the two interstellar powers for a time.
The D-8 is currently the mainstay of the Klingon battlecruiser fleet. It has replaced both of its predecessors, the D-6 and D-7, on the Klingon production schedule and has all but replaced them in major fleet operations. As all of these are brand new, fitted with the latest in Klingon starship technology advances, the D-8 will most likely remain a common sight for decades to come.
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# 30
06-24-2011, 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
dontdrunkimshoot, could you please share with us where some of your information regarding the difference in performance between the K't'inga and the Constitution come from, what border incident you're refrring to and where it was ever stated that the K't'inga is called D8 or that it was an entirely new constuction?
Some of it reminds me of Klingon Academy while other stuf for example totally contradicts the old 1980's FASA material, which made it pretty clear the K't'inga was not a 1-on-1 match for the Constitution.
I'd be very curious which soft/non canon material you used as background.
none of what i wrote can be called all that canon, and some things were kind of implied in the movies but i ran with them. there is a lack of a concrete information durring that period and i did my best to piece together information and figure out a pecking order.

1. the lack of canon open war at that point might be because of a deterrent. the refit constitution getting rid of v'ger when a squad of ktingas was annihilated could be such a deterrent.

2. the connie being no match for a ktinga i think is funny because the klingons think its really powerful at that time, if you run with that deterrent idea. in those SFB based starfleet command games federation ships always had the best sensors, so i figure they would know how their ship stacks up before the klingons do, they would need a fight to be sure. plus the federation has the excelsior eventually and connie, and it only seems fare that the ktinga ranks somewhere between the 2. in canon the klingons didn't have all those nifty FASA ships.

3. i recall the destruction of the Hood from ether SFB or FASA or whatever sparking a war or open aggression so i used that as the incident that gave the klingons real battle intelligence, then they acted accordingly.

4. a D7 probably cant just be turned into a ktinga, so i figured a D8, or what ever you would call an uprated D7 would make sense. i was saying that a D8 and a ktinga were 2 different ships too, the ktinga being all new from the ground up and the D8 being an upgraded D7. since the connie refit is an uprated connie, it seemed that them being a more even match was fair.

5. the enterprise movie era history between ST I and ST II i talked about is basically exactly what any complex timeline you can find on line would tell you about that era.

6. i noticed that the relient's role bar phasers looked thicker then the enterprise's phasers in ST II, and in ST III kirk specifically asks about a refit, not just a repair, and he's gotten his second wind and feels young and all that and he wants the enterprise to be top of the line again. to me that implies that the heavier role bar phasers the light cruiser relient fired might be a newer stronger emitter, and would be installed in the duel turret locations on a heavy cruiser, wile a light cruiser might just have those heavier phasers in its role bar. so thats why i think there was a further uprating, but that doesn't seem like enough to beat a ktinga to me.

7. the klingons turning to the bop design would make sense because if their top cruiser couldn't compete then they would need a cheap giant slayer because they could not compete with the federation economy, another notion from the starfleet command games

8. that augment smooth brow fear in heart thing should be all to familiar to anyone who watched enterprise and has played STO, and could further explain siding on caution durring this time. also the klingon academy storyline that took place before ST VI, by then the klingons were finally becoming klingons again.

9 in the late 24th century the BOP was the go to klingon ship when anything less then a vorcha or negvar was needed. the ktinga was only ever in the background. also that red beam they fired during that period i figure are some kind of heavy weapon for fleet battles, any conventional weapons it could mount at that time probably wouldn't be powerful enough to mater.

i think that's all that might need explaining, i'll try to further clarify if wanted.
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