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# 11
06-23-2011, 01:12 PM
Just the same name used on a totally different ship.
Just like the Vod'Leq is the same name for the Negh'var variant and the "Emperor Class" from Klingon Academy.
Games are totally independent of each other.
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# 12
06-23-2011, 03:01 PM
I like, but i would change the K'tanco to maybe Attack or Strike Battlecruiser and not just battlecruiser.

Battlecruiser to me has a very visceral feel of a heavy warship. Putting Attack or Strike before that can be still keep the Klingon "every cruiser is a Battlecruiser" while implying that these are lighter ships than a battlecruiser.
I would also make K't"inga a standard "Battlecruiser" and a couple of other changes.

My revised cruiser names:
Attack/Strike Battlecruiser - K'tanco
Battlecruiser - K't'iinga/D7, K't'iinga refit
Heavy Battlecruiser - Vorcha, Torkaht
Assault/Command Battlecruiser - Negh'var, Qudaj

Just my 2 cents.
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# 13
06-25-2011, 06:08 PM
We have actually been looking into exactly this issue.
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# 14
06-25-2011, 07:05 PM
A good idea, Suricata. When I was clicking on the thread I thought it was going to go in the other direction (make Fed ships go by default class name), but this proposal seems more logical.
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# 15
06-25-2011, 07:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastor_Forthright View Post
That this was ignored, and that the skill tree, names, and organization of classes can be so confusing puts more weight onto the 'after thought' they gave the KDF after they started tossing out that lie about us originally being PvP only.
OK, who had "8" in the pool for this one? Come collect your quatloos.
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# 16
06-25-2011, 09:12 PM
As a fellow well schooled in naval history and terminology, I'd like to interject a plea to refrain from adding random adjectives to the term "Battlecruiser", as it's leading to some rather unweildy and awkward categories.

While the Klingons seem to use it in the manner described above, "Battlecruiser" isn't really interchangable with "Cruiser". Historically, it referred to large warships (at many times, larger than their contemporary Battleships) which were armed with the largest, Battleship-calibre guns, but given the higher speeds and lighter armour of Cruisers. Here endeth the history lesson.

Rather, I would suggest the following terms.


K'tanco class - Honestly, I get more of a "Destroyer" vibe from this ship, but it wouldn't jibe well with the terms for the rest of the category. Strike Cruiser implies a lighter, swifter vessel, which fits it's position on the tree. An alternate suggestion would be Escort Cruiser, which would also tie it to being a lighter, swifter ship than the heavier cruisers.

K't'iinga/D7 class Battlecruiser - Canon designation. No real reason to change it.

Vorcha class Attack Cruiser - Canon designation. No real reason to change it.

Negh'var class - My default suggestion would be "Warship", but it doesn't fit the Cruiser meme. Beyond that, Command Cruiser or Assault Cruiser seem to be most apt, given the role the ship was seen used as in DS9; namely, as the Flagship, and using it's ventral cannons to bring down DS9's shields (an aside, the Negh'Var model ingame is still missing those pods, iirc).



On the subject of type realignments, I'd suggest some more realignments on the Federation side;

Miranda/Centaur/Shir'kar class Frigate - Among other reason, this will align them with the NPC versions of the ship you see throughout the game. It also removes them from being lumped in with the Cruiser line, when it seems like they're meant to be starting points for all three types.

Constitution class Cruiser (TOS) - Both Constitutions are generally accepted as Heavy Cruisers, but it's understandable that both can't hold the title given they're on different tiers. This, at least, keeps them from being "Light Cruisers" which chafes a bit.

Constitution/Excalibur/Vesper class Heavy Cruiser - Coupled with above and below, this brings the type more in line with the Canon designation.

Excelsior class Testbed Cruiser - I dislike the "Advanced" label slapped on a bunch of ships, as all of them are decidedly....no longer advanced in the 2400s. Testbed ties in to the Excelsior's ingame gimmick and most notable appearance in the movies; as the Testbed for the Transwarp engines. (realistically, it's just a newer ship of the Constitution's type, a Heavy Cruiser, but I recognize the need for it to be classed differently)

Cheyenne class Scout Cruiser - The four nacelle, no secondary hull layout of these ships suggests they are built for sustained travel, but not much else. Labelling them "Heavy cruisers" seems particularly improper, as they seem lighter in their layout than the more conventional cruisers, lacking features and backups that the secondary hull normally employs.

Sovereign class Command Cruiser - To be blunt, I'm not a fan of the concept of Starfleet's flagship (the E-E) being known for Assaulting things, so here's the most apt alternative I can come up with offhand.

II've also got a bone to pick with "Dreadnaught Cruiser", but don't have anything to suggest at the moment. (Dreadnaught Cruiser should just be Dreadnaught, but I can understand why Cruiser has to be in there somewhere.)



NX class Prototype - I agree with the need to have a 'starter' escort, given Oberth and TOS Connie filling the other two types, but the term "Light Escort" doesn't seem valid on several levels.

Prometheus class Battle Escort - Ideally, I want to call this a Tactical Cruiser, but I can see the reasoning for keeping the Cruiser label off of anything not strictly a cruiser. But I definately want to drop the "Advanced" title. These ships were new during Voyager....30+ years before the game. Alternatively, Combat Escort.



Disclaimer; I intensely dislike the convoluted 4 word classes for most of the high-end science ships to begin with, so there's a definite attempt to get most of them condensed or redesignated.

Oberth class Scout Vessel - Among other reasons (including that pattern of me not liking slapping "Light/Heavy" in front of something), there's the implication from STIII in the line where Chekov thinks he scanned a "Scout class Wessel"; In fact, it's a Bird-of-Prey, but Kirk also says it could be Grissom.

Nebula class Surveillance Vessel - As with the Prometheus and Excelsior, it's worth noting that these ships are 40-50 years old, and no longer Advanced. Surveillance ties into their Tachyon-based Cloak-detection gimmick.

Intrepid class Survey Vessel - I get the reference to just how long-ranged Voyager turned out to be, but the premise of the show was that she wasn't supposed to go quite that long-ranged. I have my own preferred designation for the Intrepid, but in keeping with the ____ Vessel meme of this overall category, this is the best I can come up with offhand. Survey is missing from any of the Science Vessels, and Luna seems the most apt for the moniker

Luna class Fleet Science Vessel - I dislike the attempt to combine "Reconnaissance" with "Science Vessel". Short version; Recon is a military term, and is what you get a Scout to do. This isn't an ideal name, but it keeps in the ____Vessel convention.

Destiny class - I'd really like to suggest something less unweildy than the current DSSV moniker, but I've kind of run out of science/research-y terms, and of all the lengthy named categories, this one's the least offensive.
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# 17
06-25-2011, 09:47 PM
This is a good idea.
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# 18
06-26-2011, 02:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suricata View Post
One of the things that always bugged me with the Klingon ships is that they've never had ship catagories like the Federation ship types. This was kind of ok when there was only 1 skin for each ship type, but now that we are getting more and more varaints added, the naming system is making much less sence, for example, the B'rel class Bird of Prey having the B'rel, D'Gavama and Koloth skins, therefore, would it be possable to rename the variants to something like as follows:-

Bird of Preys

Light Raider - B'rel, Kolath, D'Gavama
Raider - Quldun, Mchor
Attack Raider - Norgh
Fast Attack Raider - Ki'tang
Strike Raider - Hegh-Ta, Hah

Raptors

Raptor - Somraw
Heavy Raptor - Qorgh
Tactical Raptor - Pach
Advanced Raptor - Qin, Birok

Battlecruisers

Battlecruiser - K'tanco
Heavy Battlecruiser - K'T'Linga/D7, K'T'Linga refit
Assault Battlecruiser - Vorcha, Torkaht
Command Battlecruiser - Negh'var, Qudaj

Carriers

Carrier - Vo'Quv, Vod'leh
Battle Carrier - Karfi

Most of the VA ships have specific catagoes, like Patrol Cruiser or Support vessel, so these are ok. I genuinly belive that sorting out the ship types like this will make it much easier for players to tell the ship types much better than the current system whilst at the same time make the system more logical when we have different variants in each type. The names above are just suggestions, the names could obviously be altered as required.
Excellent idea. Some standardization and clarification is a good idea.
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# 19
06-26-2011, 03:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinRa_Actual View Post
As a fellow well schooled in naval history and terminology, I'd like to interject a plea to refrain from adding random adjectives to the term "Battlecruiser", as it's leading to some rather unweildy and awkward categories.
I agree with most of what you said, more so been Ex-Navy myself!

The only reason I can see it been better to use the term battlecruiser rather than cruiser is to prevent any confusion with Starfleet ships, more so when weapon types have the ship types they can be equiped on.

I'm also not overly keen on using the term 'advanced', but with so many ship types in the game, it starts getting hard to come up with new terms whilst not duplicating any already in use that could cause confusion!
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# 20
06-26-2011, 04:07 AM
It is interesting to note that the version of the Negh'Var we currently have ingame is the one from "All Good Things", where the ship was referred to as "Attack Cruiser" by Governor Worf.
The script referred to that ship as "Voodieh" class.
It was actually quite maneuverable in that episode, similar to the Negh'Var in STO yet quite unlike the Negh'Var from DS9.

The version from DS9 is completely missing and I'd like to add that the (probably-slightly-less-than-soft-canon) "Starships" module of the Decipher RPG suggests that that version is not really maneuverable.
Which would fit what we saw in "Way of the Warrior".

So my propoasl would be to use the term "Heavy Attack Cruiser" for the Negh'Var version we have ingame right now to fit "All Good Things" yet keep the Negh'var differentiated from the Vor'cha terminologywise.

I'm also hoping that one day we'll get the Negh'var incarnation from "Way of the Warrior", but as a seperate ship similar to the way the Galaxy and Galaxy-X are closely related cousins.
For that one perhaps "Negh'Var Heavy Battlecruiser" or a simple "Negh'Var Battleship" would be fitting.
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