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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
07-12-2011, 10:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebeneezergoode
I fly KDF at least as much as I do Starfleet, and don't do a bad job of it. I tried the B'rel out; the broken cloak is too high a price to pay for me personally, although I'll likely put my Sci captain in one when it's fixed. Having faced it as well as flown it I've actually got a better grasp of how easy or hard what it does is to counter than if I was just flying the B'rel. You're entitled to your opinion, but I'd appreciate it if you didn't make assumptions about wether or not I've flown the B'rel or assume my own opinion of the B'rel is somehow ill informed because it doesn't tally with your own experience. Especially considering the following...

Although Tyken's rift could be used, it's not as your post would indicate, the only way. I've seen Tachyon Beam and Charged Particle Burst (which don't share a cooldown or require a stationary target) used by a B'rel to get rid of shields quite effectively, in my opinion it's more reliable than Tykens Rift as they attack the shield, not the power level of the shield. And with the potential for having Lt Cmdr/Cmdr sci officers, it's easier to roll them out at higher ranks and more often, tactical initiative would also help in this situation. And having aux at max for science powers is no problem for a B'rel since a cloaked B'rel has no shields and can't fire energy weapons, so you can push all energy to aux and the remainder to engines.

I'm aware that other ships/careers can detect cloak, but be good at it? I wouldn't say so, but that's a matter of opinion. Regarding what I said about torpedo spread, I was explaining an idea for how torpedo spread could be used to detect a cloaked ship, this cloaked ship would have no shields, I'm not sure where "no bearing in PVE or PVP if the target has shields up" came from, because the target's cloaked. I hope that's clearer though, sometimes I don't explain things in the best manner.
I'm going to be the adult here and take control, because I'm not gonna get in a ****ing match with you over something in a game which would show immaturity when fellow gamers act this way its uncalled for. The only thing thats going to make everyone happy between the changes people want for the b'rel and those who would fear such change is a full canon change in the game. So I will lay it out here, so in the movie this b'rel was dishing out a lot more damage than we can in the game and being its a game itself there must be balance. We can all agree it is classified as a C-Store ship. It has also been said that STO is going in a console and possibly item format for these ships so the answer is already been partially layed out on what must be done and I'm not a dev but what I have read it may be cheaper and please everyone. Ok first on the b'rel make it where all healing has to be done when decloaked (This solves the HoT and other healing as well as not being able to be healed by another player while in EBC issues and fears from opposite faction). Next thing as previous poster stated when we fire front slots/forward torpedos we get a red flash effect and keep the mines the same as they are currently and if there is a rear torpedo to decloak it for 3 seconds as well as current not healing boffs to keep most of it the same. The gain is we get a console that allows our torpedos to have a decent shield penetration which this would help big time because of the cookie cutter shielding we see in pvp and the quickness to be able to complete patrols in EBC.

Now for the counter balance if this ever went into developement is a new ship for the federation that has a torpedo instead of a console in respect to the movie of how they destroyed the b'rel with a gaseous anomalie equipment modified torpedo that could work like a console and you could interchange it with any ship you wanted to use it in. So basically if you have b'rel players like myself who do not want to have to go out of our way with some special super duper setup just to be able to use this ship like others use their favorite ships and people have a problem with that and worry about the cloaking detection this would be a simple way to appeal to that worry. The only worry I would have to make sure its perfectly balanced though is anything like the tachyon grid being able to be used in conjunction with this would then make it an unfair combination and redundant at the same time.

So FYI if the devs follow this as an idea on how to improve the b'rel nobody in their right mind could get upset KDF can use a plaque, fed side can use a plaque to if they fear the need for it. I believe it would be a willing compromise to ensure balance and also would be following canon to the letter.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
07-14-2011, 06:21 AM
Hum... no.

This is too complex.

Enhanced Battle Cloak should be (Battle Cloak + "red flash when firing fore torpedo while cloaked") nothing else. No heals, buff or anything that the Battle Cloak doesn't already allow. The single and only thing added to battle cloak: firing forward torpedoes.

As for the suggested countermeasure from the previous post... that's a gamebreaker. Knowing that any federation ship could dumbfire a torpedo, and hit my naked hull without effort, is enough to let the Refit B'rel rust in the drydocks.

You have to remember that a Torpedo vs. a Shielded ship = marginal damage. The Enhanced Battle Cloak, as far as game balance goes, is only a tool to punish an exposed hull. For it to be effective in combat, you need teammates that will take down those shields. Any half-decent player will systematically try to regenerate his own shields if they're exposed (which is done faster than a B'rel cloaking and then firing). Any half-decent team player will try to extend shields / science team an exposed teammate.

In a 5v5 game, Starfleet players have to look for eachother. 4 Klingons will decloak and single 1 fed ship (receiving all the heals and defensive buffs). IF the player's hull is exposed, then the cloaked b'rel will go with High Yield 3 and hope that at least half the torpedoes connect with the hull.

Meanwhile, any Starfleet player (with good sensors and auxiliary power) who noticed the red flash will go ahead with a Sensor Sweep and warn his teammates (Vivox anyone ?) to focus on his target... Bye bye B'rel.

No need for a Dumbfire torpedo that will home in any cloaked vessel... that's a gamebreaker.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
07-14-2011, 11:54 AM
If all the Brel can do is fire torpedoes while cloaked at the cost of a sci console and 4k of hull, no one will use it.

I would go a different route and keep the weaker hull + remove an engineering console (basically 18 less resistance) + possibly knock shields down to a .75 modifier from .8 . In return, give the Brel an extra ensign universal. That would be a tough decision.

Keep the enhanced cloak with firing torpedoes while cloaked, as it really doesnt do anything.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
07-14-2011, 05:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunthaar
Hum... no.

This is too complex.

Enhanced Battle Cloak should be (Battle Cloak + "red flash when firing fore torpedo while cloaked") nothing else. No heals, buff or anything that the Battle Cloak doesn't already allow. The single and only thing added to battle cloak: firing forward torpedoes.

As for the suggested countermeasure from the previous post... that's a gamebreaker. Knowing that any federation ship could dumbfire a torpedo, and hit my naked hull without effort, is enough to let the Refit B'rel rust in the drydocks.

You have to remember that a Torpedo vs. a Shielded ship = marginal damage. The Enhanced Battle Cloak, as far as game balance goes, is only a tool to punish an exposed hull. For it to be effective in combat, you need teammates that will take down those shields. Any half-decent player will systematically try to regenerate his own shields if they're exposed (which is done faster than a B'rel cloaking and then firing). Any half-decent team player will try to extend shields / science team an exposed teammate.

In a 5v5 game, Starfleet players have to look for eachother. 4 Klingons will decloak and single 1 fed ship (receiving all the heals and defensive buffs). IF the player's hull is exposed, then the cloaked b'rel will go with High Yield 3 and hope that at least half the torpedoes connect with the hull.

Meanwhile, any Starfleet player (with good sensors and auxiliary power) who noticed the red flash will go ahead with a Sensor Sweep and warn his teammates (Vivox anyone ?) to focus on his target... Bye bye B'rel.

No need for a Dumbfire torpedo that will home in any cloaked vessel... that's a gamebreaker.
It's not complex, thats why the dev's make the big money because part of their job when developing these new abilities we get from time to time is balancing them out (Is why when I made my post I put a lot of time and thinking into the suggestion, which you may or may not have when posting your response). All this torpedo lecture is null and void I know this already. The point I am trying to make is a lot of these boffs like healing and such do not benefit the b'rel, as well your tactical and non healing science abilities should be able to still be used in the suggestion I gave for damage and survival purposes. As for the complexity, I am puzzled if you considered the options of dev's to give the seeking torpedo a long cool down, targetable, slow torpedo like in the movie (also having to follow same path where it picks it up), also it may not put you in red alert depending on if this idea is ever tried which you could possibly just out run it, as well as other things I may not have thought of. So really its not a game breaker it can be balanced and is a solid idea, I'm just not seeing any posts where people are knocking this idea down that have actually thought about how it can be balanced or any valid ideas that fit within time constraints on our pve content on currently using this ship. IMO though if there is to be any challenge to ideas we have for our KDF line of ships by people who do not play the KDF I would ask that if your multi vector didn't have multi vectors, or if your R-Defiant couldn't cloak, or your Dreadnought couldn't fire its lance or cloak would you have an issue with that and want to make it fit what its suppossed to do? Now that would be a gamebreaker
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
07-22-2011, 09:10 PM
Is this still being looked into. I specced into the B'Rel on one of my toons and its still terrible.

-Tactical Fleet decloaks you randomly (not all the time), just like how it decloaks the raptor and defiant

-Harpengs, as if they arent bad enough, decloak you

-Teammate's heals still decloak you

-Giving tactical team to a teammate while cloaked, which works fine on the heghta, randomly decloaks you (not all the time).

Honestly, the cloak is so messed up it will do something at one time, and then the next time it wont. This ship needs something useful but also to be balanced with the heghta. imo this ship should retain the lower defense characteristics but have better offensive characteristics (increased natural speed, retain the inertia and turn, extra ensign possibly). Though with the MVAE the Heghta is already outclassed with its extreme squishiness, so im not sure what to do.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
07-22-2011, 11:18 PM
If this is supposed to be similar to Chang's BoP, it failed miserably, IMHO - the cloak is crap. I only use it when I know I have a mission where I don't have to use my ship except to GET THERE (i.e. wandering the bowels of Drozana Station...why the hell did I go there again, anyway...oh yeah, I needed an armor upgrade).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
07-22-2011, 11:36 PM
can you confirm that the cloak will be 10 seconds whats the point in having an advanced battle cloak if its the same timer as a regular cloak.

also when i fire a torpedo from my cloak ship i need to re-cloak quicker any player worth there salt can give out 20-30% of damage so you getting around 1k hit points with a torpedo and suffering massive damage in return
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
07-23-2011, 02:01 AM
[quote=Beagles;3658833]Is this still being looked into. I specced into the B'Rel on one of my toons and its still terrible.

-Tactical Fleet decloaks you randomly (not all the time), just like how it decloaks the raptor and defiant

-Harpengs, as if they arent bad enough, decloak you

-Teammate's heals still decloak you

-Giving tactical team to a teammate while cloaked, which works fine on the heghta, randomly decloaks you (not all the time).

Hey do not forget Fire on My Mark that decloaks you too. Honestly there is no nice way to phrase what I have to say in regards to the state of STO. IMO this game needs some focus and direction that its not getting, I have worked in customer service in the past and I know these response times are unacceptable. As a customer I cannot see myself playing this game much longer unless it goes free to play based on what I am paying for I do not see myself getting what I am paying for. Examples are as such, player harrassment with blind invites is out of control with no intervention to STOP this. Another is month after month getting statements it will get better but season 4 has become a disaster and overly frustrating to even play things that were semi fun before season 4. Punish me for speaking my mind but it will be another drop in the bucket for me to be an ex-customer.

Have Fun
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
07-27-2011, 02:21 AM
The B'rel Retrofit ships can no longer capture points while cloaked. from tribble patch notes .

Hope they took time to fix the cloak before eaven making it worse....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
07-27-2011, 04:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarjan View Post
The B'rel Retrofit ships can no longer capture points while cloaked. from tribble patch notes .

Hope they took time to fix the cloak before eaven making it worse....
Its kind of sad how long this went unfixed, but is sort of null and void since none of us who have a character in that ship never take it into PvP, unless we just go in wanting to get blown up. I'll say this for Cryptic they are true to canon... they will not let a b'rel retrofit survive just like in the movie. I think tho that the EBC was changed from Enhanced Battle Cloak to Enhanced Battle Cosmetics, it was activated and created our new homeworld. We just need carrier's now that launch vor'cha's and negh'vars now ROFL
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