Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
07-26-2011, 11:20 AM
ES3 only works if you're in a pre made team. Otherwise you cant count on anyone healing you. And that 1 and only Cmdr. slot isnt helping you when you get focused.

I run a pretty basic set up that has been working great in PvP "non pre mades" and is pretty boring in PvE. I'm in a Vorcha but works for any cruiser.

2 beam banks, 1 array, 1 torp
3 arrays, 1 torp

Tac team 1, delta 1
high yield 1

Power 2 Aux1, Power 2 Aux2, Eng team 3, Aux2Sif 3
Power 2 Shields 1, Power 2 shields 2, Eng team 3

Hazard 1, Transfer shields 2

This, I think, is pretty basic. I can keep my shields and aux up at all times. Letting me have a strong Aux2Sif 3, HE and Tss. While still allowing for 100 power to weapons.

I can throw a Tac team/Tss 2 on a teammate and an Aux2Sif3. Giving them good shields and good hull + resist. If needed, delta 1. Then 15 seconds and they get Aux2Sif3 and Eng team 3. All of these heals are strong and able to use on a teammate, or if I get focused, myself. The only hole here is SNB since I have no Sci team. But surprisingly it's not a huge deal, you can wait that 20 or so seconds.


So. Why beams. Well my job isn't to kill things. It's to support my team. Those BoPs need all the help they can get right?

If however the OP is not planing on doing any PvP. Then load up on Dual heavy cannons, turrets. Make use of rapid fire/scatter volley, Aux2Damp. and Power to engines 1 and 1.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
07-26-2011, 02:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vampiric_hoshi View Post
The answer IS NOT beams. The answer is: It depends on how you play, on your class, and whether or not you intend to be some kind of PVPing god.
You can lead the PvEr to water, but you can't make him drink :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
07-27-2011, 06:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
You can lead the PvEr to water, but you can't make him drink :p
True, but the thing is, not everybody wants a cookie cutter build, they're often the most effective (there's a reason they're common), but they're also lacking individuality. It's a sign things are broken when some potentially decent builds are considered inferior for not conforming strictly to the prescribed builds common in PVP. Variety's the spice of life after all.

Also, while I agree to a extent cruisers should fill a support role in Arena as healers, that's the only time you're likely to be embroiled in one fight, in one place with all your team mates and all your enemies. PVE, Ker'rat and Cap & Hold do not work this way, and hybrid builds in those areas of the game can be intresting and often superior. In Cap & Hold my Fleet Escort can roam pretty safely tapping enemy nodes off and tank one really good player or several average ones for example, and even then, although on the face of it being able to tank with limited ability to heal in Arena may not seem too useful, it means I need less nurturing from the healers, and while not on tac officer levels, can still do decent spike damage, and often with that build. I found a similar thing when I flew the Negh'var on my KDF tac, I couldn't do as much damage as I do in a bop or raptor, but I didn't need that much looking after either.

Diversity can work sometimes.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
07-27-2011, 06:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebeneezergoode
True, but the thing is, not everybody wants a cookie cutter build, they're often the most effective (there's a reason they're common), but they're also lacking individuality. It's a sign things are broken when some potentially decent builds are considered inferior for not conforming strictly to the prescribed builds common in PVP. Variety's the spice of life after all.
Well the question is do you want to be as efficient as possible or not? If yes then there is no way around the usual cookie cutter builds because they are the most efficient. In this case beams would be the answer to the OPs question.
But this doesn't mean it is the only viable one. If you don't care how effective you are then you can also use cannons or a mix of both.


My current Negh'Var (work in progress):
Front: 1xQuant, 3xSingle Cannon Disruptor
Aft: 4xTurret Disruptor

Tac: TT, ABP
Sci: PH, TSS2
Eng: DEM3, DEM2, ET2, EPTW1
Aux2SI 2, Aux2Damp 1, EPtS1
EPtS1

Is it the most efficient? Hell no and I know it (I hear you laughing PvPers :p). But it is what I have fun playing with and in the end that should be the important part. (Not saying you can't have fun with a cookie cutter build).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
07-27-2011, 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampir888 View Post
Well the question is do you want to be as efficient as possible or not?
And that there is the problem, and what I have been trying to say, because there is no one overall efficient build.

There is an efficient PVP build, an efficient PVE solo build, an efficient group PVE build, etc etc.

All of the above are also entirely dependant on other players in your group, the type of map you are playing, and other factors which can also adjust what is, or is not, efficient.

Beams may be efficient in some cases, but NOT all.

Solo PVE being the biggest difference here since, generally speaking, efficiency in PVE is:

ability to survive vs ability to kill a target as quickly as possible

Cruisers are the best ship for that, and a cruiser with beams is less efficient compared to a cruiser with cannons, or a cruiser with a mix of the two, simply because a beam boat will not kill a target as fast.

So if the OP is more interested in solo PVE, then the suggestion of going all beams is not true at all. It will hamper him, not help him.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
07-27-2011, 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
  • Basically, don't try to make the cruiser into something it is not. You are a healer that does good sustained damage. Going away from that only serves to hurt you build and weakens your team.
Funny how the same thing can be said of your own build eh?

Healing setup:

Aux2SIF III
x 2 Engineering Team IIIs
Extend I
RSP I for yourself
x2 EPtS Is for yourself
Transfer Shields II
Hazard I

You have one extra ensign based on what ship youre in (orion is best for healing due to science heals)

Power:

25 to weapons (even with 100 power to weapons your damage is laughable)
50 to shields
25 to engines (bump this up on the fly if youre being sci harrassed)
100 to Aux (reaches 119 with Borg)

x3 SIF consoles
x1 Field Generator console
x2 Hazard Consoles
x1 Borg Console


Best healer in the game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
07-27-2011, 05:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagles View Post
/snip
Best healer in the game.
That kind of setup makes sense when you have two squishy BoPs performing hit and run attacks like the QEW setup. With a more typical setup you run the risk of bringing your team's DPS down too far to be effective. In any case, with good power management you aren't losing out on too much healing to do decent damage. If you don't want to take it from me, take it from guys like Era.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
07-28-2011, 02:21 AM
I'm using double Plasma Beam Banks and Plasma Dual Heavy Cannons. It's expensive to skill but in PVE it was ok by now, exept for the Pi Canis sorties.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
07-29-2011, 10:24 PM
I bought a Negh'Var tonight and started testing it with cannons.

Current setup:

Fore: 1 AntiProton DC, 2 AP Cannons, 1 Photon Torp
Aft: 3 AP Turrets, 1 Photon Torp

Tactical: TT I , APD I

Engi: EPTS I, ET 2, EPTS 3, EWP 3

Engi: EPTE I, EPTW 2, ET 3

Engi: EPTW I

Sci: ST 1, HE 2

My char is Engineer and i have full Aegis set.

Been in 2 Arena match with it, finished with highest DMG done, ex-aequo for kills and highest healing done. Now it certainly is not an optimal ship but it fared well enough and was fun piloting. I just kept my Photon torp on autofiring while trying to stay in the 45 degree to use all weapons.

I might try beams tomorrow but cannons seemed not that bad.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
08-08-2011, 09:44 AM
Hi all

some very intresting things to think on, thanks
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