Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
08-11-2011, 06:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic_One View Post
If you can point to an episode of Voyager where a DSSV fights and loses to an Intrepid I might agree with you. But then I like Star Trek and its canon - even though it doesn't always make sense.
Neither the Imperial nor the Avenger show up in any episodes, and yet it's been very well established that the Lakota, because of what it does in one episode of DS9 is absolutely supposed to be superior to those much newer ships.

So, applying that exact same logic, the Intrepid (which has 7 full seasons of canon to demonstrate how superior it is) must be superior to the DSSV.

It's Cryptic logic and it's how the tier system is supposed to work.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
08-11-2011, 06:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
Neither the Imperial nor the Avenger show up in any episodes, and yet it's been very well established that the Lakota, because of what it does in one episode of DS9 is absolutely supposed to be superior to those much newer ships.

So, applying that exact same logic, the Intrepid (which has 7 full seasons of canon to demonstrate how superior it is) must be superior to the DSSV.

It's Cryptic logic and it's how the tier system is supposed to work.
me thinks it has more to do with us wanting to play said hero ship with X seasons that demonstrate the ships superiority.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
08-11-2011, 06:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
Neither the Imperial nor the Avenger show up in any episodes, and yet it's been very well established that the Lakota, because of what it does in one episode of DS9 is absolutely supposed to be superior to those much newer ships.

So, applying that exact same logic, the Intrepid (which has 7 full seasons of canon to demonstrate how superior it is) must be superior to the DSSV.

It's Cryptic logic and it's how the tier system is supposed to work.
You and I must have a different definition of logic.

While I think it's stupid the Excelsior Lakota is T5 I also understand 2 things:

1: It's canon that the Lakota and Defiant basically fought themselves to a standstill - neither ship wanting to use torpedoes to destroy the other - with the Defiant eking out the win in the end.

2: Some fans want what they want and just don't care about canon, common sense, or logic. IE, some fans just want T5 everything whether it makes sense or not.

There's no way to please everybody.

My own view is that different ships have different purposes and that newness is not the basis for tier increase. Some ships are support, some are exploration, some are war. As I have said before, Starfleet sent an Oberth to study the Genesis Planet because they thought it was safely within Federation territory. If they had known there were going to be Klingons there they wouldn't have sent a support ship. They'd have sent a Constitution or at least a Reliant: something with a little more firepower and defenses. So long story short, the fact that the Stargazer is a new ship while the Galaxy is an older model doesn't mean the Stargazer should be tougher then (or even as tough as) a Galaxy. They have 2 different purposes within Starfleet and 2 different tiers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
08-11-2011, 07:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
Neither the Imperial nor the Avenger show up in any episodes, and yet it's been very well established that the Lakota, because of what it does in one episode of DS9 is absolutely supposed to be superior to those much newer ships.

So, applying that exact same logic, the Intrepid (which has 7 full seasons of canon to demonstrate how superior it is) must be superior to the DSSV.

It's Cryptic logic and it's how the tier system is supposed to work.
And an Intrepid took some heavy damage from an almost destroyed Nova, as per canon
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
08-11-2011, 07:11 AM
But my comparison is between tier 5 cruisers (Avenger vs. Excelsior). Or tier 5 science ships (Intrepid vs. DSSV). Not a T3 cruiser and a T5 cruiser (Stargazer vs. Galaxy).

I'm just using the tier system Cryptic created. And it makes zero sense.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
08-12-2011, 03:57 AM
I still say that, apart from the undeniable hero ship factor, the main culprit for everyone using an Intrepid (for example) is that the skillpoints allocation pigeonholes a caracther in one ship. I know it's my case, I would love to try and see if I can make my current build work on a Luna-class base but really don't fancy having to waste 2 respecs on it in case it didn't work or I simply didn't like it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
08-21-2011, 11:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by h3llr4iser View Post
What really kills the "RA" ships is BO slots layout and the fact that they have a different skill set to invest points in, while the retrofit ones all fall into a single pool.
So if a character is specc'd in the RSV, he/she can't fly a DSSV efficiently, nor a Retrofit; If he/she is spec'd in the retrofit, however, he/she can fly the Intrepid, the Nebula and the D'Kyr, covering essentially the entire spectrum for the selected class (at least as far as science vessels are concerned).

The DīKyr is unsing the same Captain skill as the DSSV. The intrepid-R is using the same skill as the Nebula. Only the RSV has a Captain skill that isnīt used by any other ship so far, cause there isnīt any RSV refit yet.

The Boff layout off the DSSV is quite nice, the difference to the intrepid is that u have 1 more ensign eng. instead of the 1 ensign sci. As compensation for the special ability you ahve 1 more (eng) console with the DSSV which is quite useful. And ofc you have a slight difference in turnrate, since the update the base turnrate difference is only 1 degree which the DSSV has less.
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