Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
08-16-2011, 11:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rooster75
I'd drop one of the Tractor beams and move some things around to make room for an additional lower tiered CPB. I'd also drop one of the BA's in the rear and go for another torpedo. Those BA's primarily serve for Target Subs. I wouldn't mount an extra one just for relying on it to proc. The extra torp would probably serve you much better. I use 2 quantums up front and 2 tric's in the rear on my fed shield stripper.

But that's just me. It's still a good setup. Suits the author's playstyle.
There is definitely a lot of variation (and optimziation) potential in the build.

I occassionally used Polarize Hull instead of a Tractor Beam, and sometimes another heal (including Science Team) would also do good. Science has an incredible flexibility in the lower slots.

I decided against another Charged Particle Burst for two reasons:
  • Ultimately, the Tachyon Beam / Charged Particle Burst combination is also a spike attack. A second Charged Particle Burst wouldn't give me any more spike potential then the first already does. Shockwave fixes in this mix much better, as it is a third power I can use as part of a spike, and something that can be very nasty if you're just lost a serious amount of shields are are stunned.
  • I need some heals for at least myself, if not for some team mates.

I am currently not using 2 Tri-Cobalts because i felt I didn't get enough good opportunities to actually use them, and they are also so easily dispatched. I might revisit this at some point. The weapon selection has undergone a lot of variation over time. A 3 beam broadside is certainly nothing impressive, admittedly.

Quote:
I agree with MVS5191 on that one. Tachyon Beam 3 is great and a must have for a build like this. With CPB 3 that power is very effective. I have two shield stripper builds like this. One on a BOP and another on an Intrepid. Just don't expect it to rip shields on its own. You need to supplement it with either high weapons power or CPB. Very deadly combo.
A little sad is that the lower Tachyon Beams seem very ineffective. There seems to be no reason to use a low level version at tier 5.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
08-17-2011, 07:23 AM
If I could offer any suggestions, they would be-

maybe BO instead of THY. Only b/c the focus of the build is shield drain, this will work well with TB III to diminish shields. You can always rely on Tac's to finish the job once you help bring shields down.

maybe a Tyken's Rift, and just tractor them through it.

I know you probably have you're own views on the build, but if you're tinkering with it that's what I would tinker with.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
08-17-2011, 07:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bran_Mak_Morrn View Post
If I could offer any suggestions, they would be-

maybe BO instead of THY. Only b/c the focus of the build is shield drain, this will work well with TB III to diminish shields. You can always rely on Tac's to finish the job once you help bring shields down.

maybe a Tyken's Rift, and just tractor them through it.

I know you probably have you're own views on the build, but if you're tinkering with it that's what I would tinker with.
Tyken's would be great for a shield drain build... except that it shares a CD with TachBeam

And you really need Tyken's 3 to shut down shields, otherwise people easily overcome the shield drain with EPtS.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
08-17-2011, 07:58 AM
I'm really appreciating all the info in this thread. Thanks everyone!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
...I am currently not using 2 Tri-Cobalts because i felt I didn't get enough good opportunities to actually use them, and they are also so easily dispatched...
Are TriCs destructable? Do you find it all the harder with the prevelance of FAW?
Lt. Commander
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# 15
08-17-2011, 08:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatricianVetinari
I'm really appreciating all the info in this thread. Thanks everyone!

Are TriCs destructable? Do you find it all the harder with the prevelance of FAW?
Trics are destructible.

In addition to FAW, you've got to watch for PSW, Gravity Well, Tyken's, Scatter Volley, etc. Anything that's an AoE, basically.

In my experience, the only reliable way to get a tric hit is to hit them from point blank range - and that's if the tric doesn't misfire.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
08-17-2011, 12:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvs5191 View Post
Trics are destructible.

In addition to FAW, you've got to watch for PSW, Gravity Well, Tyken's, Scatter Volley, etc. Anything that's an AoE, basically.

In my experience, the only reliable way to get a tric hit is to hit them from point blank range - and that's if the tric doesn't misfire.
Eject Warp Plasma is also something I often forget. That's always a "DOH" moment, because the plasma is right there in front of me, and I shoot the Tri-Cobalt anyway. Though GW and TR are not that different.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
08-17-2011, 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvs5191 View Post
I myself am a fan of the 5-Beam Sci, but I highly disagree that TB3 is useless.

You can easily run at 114 Weapons/95 Aux. Even at that "low" Aux level, TB3 drains ~4000. Quite valuable, when you consider that will be added to your energy weapon damage.

CPB 3 + TB3 = ~8000 shield drain with the above power levels. Add that in to the damage your energy weapons are doing, and you're quite the potent damage platform (not to be confused with burst ability).
not quite exact.

to use Tachyon 3 you need to face forward, which means 3 beams not firing, 1st dmg loss
the dmg loss on cummulative beam firing is not as big as most of you think.

i can only tell this from experience: i play my sci char since launch, ive tried many many different builds and what ive seen so far is: the fastest kill you get by:

6 beams, eptw2, syphon3 and additionally a little bit of tractor and/or feedbackpulse. - note: i dont like that fact too, but it is a fact unfortunately.
im speaking of pvE, in pvp things a very different.

and tachyonbeam has a quite major failure: its dependant on aux setting, while weapons depend on weaponsetting. then: you cant max both. then: its totally wayne if you set aux to max or weapons. the one drops in amount of the other one is rising. then again: it has a 45sec cooldown, wich means: you gibe up lets say 40% beamdmg for nearly gaining same dmg on shields, but. only all 45sec, while beams can be fired all the time.

its a logical mistake done here. both, beams and Tachyon are to drain shield capacity, and both run on different powerlevels, but maxing both is impossible. Tachyon is maybe woth using it itself, but its better to spend that spot with a tractorbeam3, cause this one lowers speed --> more hits/crits. and this applies to beam hits shields too!

just make a fun and just try this one:


tractor beam 3 + energy syphon 3, eptw2, 6 beams (no acc needed, spend it on dmg and crtH/crtD) then put photonic officer in the other lt com slot or a second tractor3.

when you fight: start with target shields, if you are at 5km put target engines and syphon, broadside your enemy. when target engines runs of put your first Tractor, when this ends (normally the fight is over by now but if not) use the second tractor.

i really would like to see other builds to be competitive in pvE environment, but unfortunately in pve just dps counts. burst is sensless, cause you cant burst a single escort (the only ones you can burst in one expose phase is the frigate, but there are always 3 of them ^^) in one "expose" (shield dropped) by using a tricobalt. i dont like this fact but its a fact.

this is what i do and as far as i can see for pvE it beats every of those drain and shieldsoffline builds by far.
the other builds just depend on to much other factors. like "use tricobalt" ... wow even the slowest mobs shoots these down unless you fire from zero-distance.

now just try that and youll see that the enemys will be destroyed MUCH faster, then with every other complexity build.
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Posts: 120
# 18
08-17-2011, 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelOfDespair
this is what i do and as far as i can see for pvE it beats every of those drain and shieldsoffline builds by far.
.
Mustrum's build is not intended as a competitive PvE build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
Notice that this build might not be quite as good in PvE as it is in PvP, as players use a lot of shield resists, which shield drain ignores, but NPCs really just have tons of shield points. I recommend switching to a weapon-power focused setting for PvE normally
Here the author is actually recommending a high weapons power setting for PvE. The author admits that this build would be "slow" in PvE if it was used they way it was intended (which is for PvP). Hence, it's not really intended for PvE use but it can get by with some minor adjustments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelOfDespair
just make a fun and just try this one:


tractor beam 3 + energy syphon 3, eptw2, 6 beams (no acc needed, spend it on dmg and crtH/crtD) then put photonic officer in the other lt com slot or a second tractor3.

when you fight: start with target shields, if you are at 5km put target engines and syphon, broadside your enemy. when target engines runs of put your first Tractor, when this ends (normally the fight is over by now but if not) use the second tractor.

i really would like to see other builds to be competitive in pvE environment, but unfortunately in pve just dps counts. burst is sensless, cause you cant burst a single escort (the only ones you can burst in one expose phase is the frigate, but there are always 3 of them ^^) in one "expose" (shield dropped) by using a tricobalt. i dont like this fact but its a fact.

this is what i do and as far as i can see for pvE it beats every of those drain and shieldsoffline builds by far.
the other builds just depend on to much other factors. like "use tricobalt" ... wow even the slowest mobs shoots these down unless you fire from zero-distance.

now just try that and youll see that the enemys will be destroyed MUCH faster, then with every other complexity build.
I'm sure this does just fine for PvE.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
08-17-2011, 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rooster75
Mustrum's build is not intended as a competitive PvE build.



Here the author is actually recommending a high weapons power setting for PvE. The author admits that this build would be "slow" in PvE if it was used they way it was intended for PvP. Hence, it's not really intended for PvE use but it can get by with some minor adjustments.



I'm sure this does just fine for PvE.
Really? isnt tractorbeam 3 a ltcmdr skill? seems like a horrible horrible horrible waste. Laste i heard the only difference between 1 and 3 was a pitiable amount of damage.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
08-17-2011, 05:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigduckie
Really? isnt tractorbeam 3 a ltcmdr skill? seems like a horrible horrible horrible waste. Laste i heard the only difference between 1 and 3 was a pitiable amount of damage.
AngelOfDespair uses it on his PvE build. Not to be confused with the Shield Stripper that was originally posted on this thread.

Sorry if your thread might be getting a little highjacked Mustrum. Things seem to be getting a little off of the original topic now. I won't make anymore posts here.

Mustrum, keep up the good work. Great build!
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