Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
08-23-2011, 11:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raphezir View Post
The PVP matches really got better since FAW got fixed and all the players started abstaining from SS. Some premades started using SS 2 again cause its in the rules.
"Its in the tourney rules" is the argument i always get when i ask people, why they think using SS2 is ok.
I dont think thats a good argument after all. What comes next is this "Evasive Failure/Missfire" argument. Does convince me neither. I had an Evasive Failure by a SS 1 yesterday. (btw i dont believe a skill is coded different on each level). The target jump can also be totaly sick on SS 2.

So what makes so many people think, that SS 2 is still ok? I tend to think, thats just because they didnt have to deal with more than 1 scramble in the last weeks. Run into a group with 2 SS 2 and tell me, what makes SS 2 not op while SS 3 is.
I think one of the reasons that lower level Scrambles were deemed "okay" was that it competes with various lower level Science powers (especially heals) for attention. You can build a healing-focused Science Vessel that simply uses the Commander Slot for Scramble Sensors. Other powers only work really effective if you combine them with other offensive skills (Tykens Rift + Scramble, Charged Particule Burst + Tachyon Beam + Photonic Shockwave) that might also require appropriate skilling. IF you got Scramble Sensors I or II, you have to take a lower grade heal, and figure out if you can still find something useful in the Commander slot that actually works with your other skill choices.

If you want to make lower tier Scrambles work well skilling into it becomes more important _and_ your only Cmdr level option that goes with that skill is Viral Matrix, which isn't very hot. I think if you specced into Transfer Shield Strength related skills, the other skill is Feedback Pulse, which isn't that interesting either (and its synergie with Feedback Pulse might be questionable, especially if many people use Scrambles - the enemy might not even be able to focus fire on the Feedback Pulse user in the first place).

But I agree, ultimately Scramble is just too annyoing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
08-24-2011, 03:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
If you want to make lower tier Scrambles work well skilling into it becomes more important...
Really ? Can you explain me why my unskilled ss II lasts 22 seconds without sensor probe consoles? All lvls of ss are broken, skilled or not.

First officer : "Captain we have an plasma leak on deck 12"
Captain : "Send a engineering team to that deck and fix it"
First officer : "Sorry Captain i beamed our team to the enemy ship because our sensors have been scrambled"
Captain : " WTF..."

The effect of ss is just stupid make it to an aoe jam sensors and it will be balanced.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
08-24-2011, 04:07 AM
Scramble 1 or 2 or 3, when skilled, it got the same effect and that takes a lot of fun out of pvp games. Heck, SS2 is even better then SS3, same effect just with a few seconds shorter duration and gives you a fancy cmdr. slot for fancy sci things.

I've been quite a while a huge disciple of the SS3 madness but I had to change my mind about that. Scramble messes up the great experience to compete fair with other players in pvp games. So if you say, SS3 in a no-go, all scramble skills should be considered like that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
08-24-2011, 04:20 AM
[quote=Stressfaktor]Really ? Can you explain me why my unskilled ss II lasts 22 seconds without sensor probe consoles? All lvls of ss are broken, skilled or not.
Of course, I can. It is because - oh my good, is that an assimilated flying cow over there?

*runs and hides*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Advanced Scramble Sensors Dialog
First officer : "Captain we have an plasma leak on deck 12"
Captain : "Send a engineering team to that deck and fix it"
First officer : "Sorry Captain i beamed our team to a chroniton mine because our sensors where scrambled"
Captain : " WTF... We need to get out of here - Evasive Maneuvers"
Helm: "Aye Sir..."
Captain: "Why are we not moving, Lieutenant?!"
Helm: "Err.. Sorry...All those pretty lights from the scrambled sensors! I forget to disengage the space brakes."
Captain: *facepalm*
Ship: KABOOM

Quote:
The effect of ss is just stupid make it to an aoe jam sensors and it will be balanced.
I like this idea actually.
Maybe it oculd also work if Jam Sensors and Scramble Sensors had opposite effects?
Or at least make it fragile perhaps? Or just change the entire effect. Stop with the target-jumping for players. Just make it a -20-50 % damage penalty and healing penalty. NPCs can still shoot at each other when scrambled, I don't mind.
Or if the Sensor Probe was targetable like a heavy torpedo?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
08-24-2011, 04:37 AM
LOL nice ending

Healing penalty is an good idea because there are no skills in game where prevent yo-yo healing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
08-24-2011, 04:41 AM
My main toon is sci, flying a RSV, and I have always thought of scramble as a cheap trick in PvP. I have never used it in a pvp match for that reason. (although I have used it on an alternate boff for pve)

I 100% agree that SS needs to be re-worked in some form to make it less effective. Maybe it could be treated like shockwave was.. ie: once you are scrambled, then you have an immunity to being scrambled again for a certain amount of time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
08-24-2011, 05:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stromgold View Post
My main toon is sci, flying a RSV, and I have always thought of scramble as a cheap trick in PvP. I have never used it in a pvp match for that reason. (although I have used it on an alternate boff for pve)

I 100% agree that SS needs to be re-worked in some form to make it less effective. Maybe it could be treated like shockwave was.. ie: once you are scrambled, then you have an immunity to being scrambled again for a certain amount of time.
A problem of the current Scramble is that it lasts very long. I think under this circumstances, temporary immunities don't work as well.

Here is another approach without using a heal or damage debuff.

Scramble Sensors
Skills: Starship Operations, Starship Sensors, Starship Sensor Probes
System Cooldown: 15 Sensor Probes
Recharge: 30 seconds
Global Cooldown: 20 seconds
Scramble Sensors creates a projectile that targets an enemy in a 180 forward arc and explodes at the target's location at the time of the launch. All hostile ships within a radius X are scrambled for Y seconds.

When first scrambled, the target immediately switches its current target to a random target. While scrambled, all other contacts are treated as hostile. When the Scramble duration expires, the target is immune to a new Scramble Effect for 15 seconds (clearing all still lasting scramble effects.)

X ranges from 3-6 km, based on the following formula (capped at 6 km)
X = 2 + (Auxillary Power / 100) + RANK) km.
Y ranges from 5-10 seconds (hard capped at 10 km), based on the following formula
Y = 4 + (RANK) + (Skill Rating / 100) + (Auxillary Power / 100) seconds.

This means Scramble Sensors can be used more often, but it lasts a lot shorter. Also, the target hopping happens exactly _once_, in the beginning, and that is it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
08-24-2011, 06:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
A problem of the current Scramble is that it lasts very long. I think under this circumstances, temporary immunities don't work as well.

Here is another approach without using a heal or damage debuff.

Scramble Sensors
Skills: Starship Operations, Starship Sensors, Starship Sensor Probes
System Cooldown: 15 Sensor Probes
Recharge: 30 seconds
Global Cooldown: 20 seconds
Scramble Sensors creates a projectile that targets an enemy in a 180 forward arc and explodes at the target's location at the time of the launch. All hostile ships within a radius X are scrambled for Y seconds.

When first scrambled, the target immediately switches its current target to a random target. While scrambled, all other contacts are treated as hostile. When the Scramble duration expires, the target is immune to a new Scramble Effect for 15 seconds (clearing all still lasting scramble effects.)

X ranges from 3-6 km, based on the following formula (capped at 6 km)
X = 2 + (Auxillary Power / 100) + RANK) km.
Y ranges from 5-10 seconds (hard capped at 10 km), based on the following formula
Y = 4 + (RANK) + (Skill Rating / 100) + (Auxillary Power / 100) seconds.

This means Scramble Sensors can be used more often, but it lasts a lot shorter. Also, the target hopping happens exactly _once_, in the beginning, and that is it.
Maybe have the effect taper off at range, like if you are at the outside range the effects are less.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
08-24-2011, 09:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by guapos
In short, Scramble 3 is no more OP than Scramble 1 or 2. Those players in the pvp community who want Scramble 3 banned from your tourneys, should be consistent about it at least, and stop using Scramble of any level altogether.
Nah you are wrong I been scrambled alot and in my experience SS3 cancels you evasive like 50% when SS2 is way less. Yes SS2 fully speced can be as brutal as a non spec SS3, but we alrdy tried having af turney with no SS and that ment tac team all over the place, when ppl dont needed ST.

We could ban SS2 in the opvp turney and only allow SS1

But I really dont think there would be any problems if all the PvP fleets follow the simple rules of the Opvp turney

No FAW No Mines No PENG and No SS3

How stupid is it to meet another fleet that mine spam when your own do not use FAW becourse you have followed the opvp rules
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
08-24-2011, 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tidemand82 View Post
How stupid is it to meet another fleet that mine spam when your own do not use FAW becourse you have followed the opvp rules
^^ I like this quote!

Just in general, been running builds without those wonderfully talked about powers that are being omitted from the tourney.

When you face others that are following the same guidelines, it makes for a very enjoyable match. If being SS1/2d to death because you dont have a sci officer/vessel on your team, thats just pointing out a defecincy in your group makeup.
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