Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
08-24-2011, 10:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tidemand82 View Post
Nah you are wrong I been scrambled alot and in my experience SS3 cancels you evasive like 50% when SS2 is way less.
Really Tide, your experience is the argument now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tidemand82 View Post
But I really dont think there would be any problems if all the PvP fleets follow the simple rules of the Opvp turney

No FAW No Mines No PENG and No SS3

How stupid is it to meet another fleet that mine spam when your own do not use FAW becourse you have followed the opvp rules
The OPVP tourney rules again... Its not the Holy Bilbe, is it?
Id really like to see the rules allow FAW and mines instead of SS.

How stupid is it to meet another fleet that SS 2 spam when your own do not use SS because you know using it makes the match no fun for both sides.

And why do not ban SS 2, if you could? Cause SS 1 is not op/broken enough to deal with the Tac Team problem?
To me this pretty much looks like arbitrariness.
There was a time some decided SS is the only way to deal with Tactical Teams. (Of course its not) Cool, I missed that but have to live with that now?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
08-24-2011, 10:44 AM
the real problem of the rules of the OPVP tournament is that only 2 fleet set the rules, all other has to follow. I dont think thats the way to go when making rules.
Also the rules suite the tactics allready known by those fleets in banning counters, like FAW or SS3, or Mines etc.

As long we have rules against abilitys that are not broken more then other abilitys spams or other things who are hardcounters i will never strictly follow those rules, as long as not all PVP Fleets are part of an legal and fair Rulesetting system i will not accept or follow those rules out of the Tourney.

And when i think the rules of the tourney are one sided or help some tactics more then to counter those tactics i will not be part of that turney, and the turney is not essential for me as a decent, legal, neutral and rating platform to decide which fleet is now on top or which tactic work good. In that case the tourney is nothing more then a couple of fun challenges.

Strategy and Tactic in every MMO is not set by rules of guys who ban think they dont want to face or deal with. All big Turneys of other MMO or Games dont have such many rules against abilitys or usage of it.

As long we can spam minions, ss1, ss2, there is a need for FAW and SS3 in my opinion.

FAW is not broken, as some guys think, after they nerfed it its a normal skill like others.

Spam is not broken, from abilitys or minions there is only the big lag issue.

As i said before, PVP Fleet or not PVP Fleet, every Premade use Tactics, and Tactics that counter or win against other Tactics or Setups get Nerf Crys. But when it comes to the factor to winning all Fleets are the same, they use what they have or want to use. Some Fleets go even further and want the whole thing balanced to their advantage, when those changes will come it will help them a few days, then the others will adapt and that is an endless cycle.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
08-24-2011, 11:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkantar
the real problem of the rules of the OPVP tournament is that only 2 fleet set the rules, all other has to follow. I dont think thats the way to go when making rules.
Also the rules suite the tactics allready known by those fleets in banning counters, like FAW or SS3, or Mines etc.


A
Actually many that post regularly agreed to those rules even some fleets that like to SS constantly. What is fun are the ones that rely on the power and defend you do not find many of their ships in the tourney. I am of the mindset that powers that are broke, take advantage of holes in the games mechanics should not be allowed. There are a few I wished were added like the GW on top of TR and then EWP, the coding in the game is so inefficient that you actual will lose the visual graphic for 1 or 2 of the powers so you end up flying through a "cloaked" EWP gas cloud or fly to close to an invisible GW.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
08-24-2011, 11:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raphezir View Post
Really Tide, your experience is the argument now?

The OPVP tourney rules again... Its not the Holy Bilbe, is it?
Id really like to see the rules allow FAW and mines instead of SS.

How stupid is it to meet another fleet that SS 2 spam when your own do not use SS because you know using it makes the match no fun for both sides.

And why do not ban SS 2, if you could? Cause SS 1 is not op/broken enough to deal with the Tac Team problem?
To me this pretty much looks like arbitrariness.
There was a time some decided SS is the only way to deal with Tactical Teams. (Of course its not) Cool, I missed that but have to live with that now?
Well its just a estimate SS3 is where evasive fails alot more

In the TSI fun day no SS was allowed the result healing was insane op and almost everybody had 2 Tac Teams that was not fun.

Opvp rulez as a holy Bible well sound abit odd but I still think if we all follow them we would have more fun, in the 2 last Opvp event the rules was inplace and all who partisipated had fun and there was no complains

the rules can always be changes ofcourse if things and opinion changes
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
08-24-2011, 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tidemand82 View Post
the rules can always be changes ofcourse if things and opinion changes
Thats what I'm talking about. (You cannot change the Bible )
The OPVP rules are the best thing we have to control never fixed STO issues but they must be changable.

Imo allowing but controlling FAW by keeping restrictions to ships (maybe even forbid beam escorts for that purpose) would be another way to get over the superior healing. Of course this needs some testing.

Till now the thread shows, a majority doesnt think the SS 3 restriction is fine how it is. Or is this just my reading?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
08-24-2011, 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkantar
the real problem of the rules of the OPVP tournament is that only 2 fleet set the rules, all other has to follow. I dont think thats the way to go when making rules.
Also the rules suite the tactics allready known by those fleets in banning counters, like FAW or SS3, or Mines etc.

As long we have rules against abilitys that are not broken more then other abilitys spams or other things who are hardcounters i will never strictly follow those rules, as long as not all PVP Fleets are part of an legal and fair Rulesetting system i will not accept or follow those rules out of the Tourney.

And when i think the rules of the tourney are one sided or help some tactics more then to counter those tactics i will not be part of that turney, and the turney is not essential for me as a decent, legal, neutral and rating platform to decide which fleet is now on top or which tactic work good. In that case the tourney is nothing more then a couple of fun challenges.

Strategy and Tactic in every MMO is not set by rules of guys who ban think they dont want to face or deal with. All big Turneys of other MMO or Games dont have such many rules against abilitys or usage of it.

As long we can spam minions, ss1, ss2, there is a need for FAW and SS3 in my opinion.

FAW is not broken, as some guys think, after they nerfed it its a normal skill like others.

Spam is not broken, from abilitys or minions there is only the big lag issue.

As i said before, PVP Fleet or not PVP Fleet, every Premade use Tactics, and Tactics that counter or win against other Tactics or Setups get Nerf Crys. But when it comes to the factor to winning all Fleets are the same, they use what they have or want to use. Some Fleets go even further and want the whole thing balanced to their advantage, when those changes will come it will help them a few days, then the others will adapt and that is an endless cycle.


Im sorry, but the above post is complete BS.

First off, on the argument that the rules are to follow our needs/tactics - TSI and Qew run very opposite ideal setups. Feds vs Klings, Heavy Heals vs Light Heals, Consistant damage vs Burst damage, Damage Cruisers vs Full Aux cruisers. Very different playstyles yet you have a baseless claim saying this caters to both of our tactics.

Our team would rather have things like mines (more cover for our cloaked ships, our full aux healers can clear them + forces enemy damage cruisers to clear instead of shooting our ships) and SS III (Klings have a carrier with a near useless sci commander with SSIII as the only viable ability, as they all require positioning/arcs - also our cloaked ships will not be hit by SS, plus Birds can have sci teams easier than fed escorts in order to clear).

Unfortunately it is really really annoying for fed teams, and I can see it on those rare days we hop on feds.

The second point is that, if these cheese skills were allowed, Qew and TSI would start to use them as well and be even better than we are now.

Third, other competitive multiplayer games do restrict cheese. Servers will make competitive rules, such as limiting the # of certain classes, adding weapon restrictions, etc. Cryptic is not Blizzard when it comes to trying to balance the game. In fact, I dont think Cryptic gives PvP a look when they come up with their latest additions, and after a year we realized that (hence OPVP tournament rules).

The fact is, scramble sensors is not fun. FAW is broken and is not fun. Mines without FAW is not fun. They also take no skill to use and have no viable counters.

In the end, the dominant teams are still going to win. It will just be a lot less fun for the loser, and probably the winner as well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
08-24-2011, 11:39 AM
Aux 2 Batt FTW :-D Seriously tho the cool down time on aux to batt is phenominal i could run full aux all day :-D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagles View Post
Im sorry, but the above post is complete BS.

First off, on the argument that the rules are to follow our needs/tactics - TSI and Qew run very opposite ideal setups. Feds vs Klings, Heavy Heals vs Light Heals, Consistant damage vs Burst damage, Damage Cruisers vs Full Aux cruisers. Very different playstyles yet you have a baseless claim saying this caters to both of our tactics.

Our team would rather have things like mines (more cover for our cloaked ships, our full aux healers can clear them + forces enemy damage cruisers to clear instead of shooting our ships) and SS III (Klings have a carrier with a near useless sci commander with SSIII as the only viable ability, as they all require positioning/arcs - also our cloaked ships will not be hit by SS, plus Birds can have sci teams easier than fed escorts in order to clear).

.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28 -.-
08-24-2011, 11:42 AM
hi mr. tide

first i have to agree with raphezir.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raphezir View Post
The OPVP tourney rules again... Its not the Holy Bilbe, is it?
personally....i don't care what some guys from a known QQ channel have to say..which skills are allowed or not:p

about this.....
Quote:
In the TSI fun day no SS was allowed the result healing was insane op and almost everybody had 2 Tac Teams that was not fun.
i expect you guys asking for a tac team ban for the next tourny...so cloaked ambushs are easier lol

and i had to laugh about this one:
Quote:
....in the 2 last Opvp event the rules was inplace and all who partisipated had fun and there was no complains
SERIOUSLY^^...after the final...15:1....those guys who lost complained about EXTEND SHIELDS so badly.....even about EXTEND 1..lmao
and the raging lasted for days..here one infamous quote:

"Blah blah blah, you and everyone else knows its garbage. You knew extend shields were garbage. Yet you choose to run it"
Therefore your team is not on the cheese free list, simple as that....good day!


and in the other event one klingon player complained about scramble 1....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagles View Post
The second point is that, if these cheese skills were allowed,.......

Third, other competitive multiplayer games do restrict cheese..
YOU are not the sto police....what you call "cheese" are only ingame skills/powers/tactics for others!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
08-24-2011, 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cutter.Slade View Post



YOU are not the sto police....what you call "cheese" are only ingame skills/powers/tactics for others!
and MY team isnt the team getting *****ed at every night because we bring all these things that OPVP rules prohibit. I even see players in different zones during pvp *****ing at you for all the scrambles you bring. They must be having a ton of fun too eh?


This is NOT about furthering ourselves. Like i said these are rules set by two very very different teams, so it is impossible to bend the rules to benefit us both. The rules are there to make a better game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
08-24-2011, 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagles View Post
and MY team isnt the team getting *****ed at every night because we bring all these things that OPVP rules prohibit. I even see players in different zones during pvp *****ing at you for all the scrambles you bring. They must be having a ton of fun too eh?


This is NOT about furthering ourselves. Like i said these are rules set by two very very different teams, so it is impossible to bend the rules to benefit us both. The rules are there to make a better game.
No matter what we bring, people QewQew. What's the bottom line, common denominator? They lost.
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