Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 61
08-29-2011, 04:09 PM
Regarding faw banned status in the tournament, its not actually based that much on numbers anymore by me, its more of general consensus and frankly I rather have faw banned then lots of ZZZZZZZZZ beam cruisers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 62
08-29-2011, 04:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavairo
Read what I said, the firepower increase with FAW is dependent squarely on how many people decide to roll it. In 1 ship it's not bad. 2 ships it is manageable. 3 or more, and it becomes overbearingly powerful.

Hypothetically you could also roll FAWSCI boats, and really wreck havoc with Perma Scrambles, and Shield Drain. But that build gets much trickier.

You don't get nearly similar results from massed Escort fire.
But that holds true with most any power in the game. Run into a them based team with any power stacked and you can have problems. SS team, GW team..etc. The idea that it becomes overpowered if and only if somebody else is using one too is the same as me saying that 2 ships beating on me at the same time is OP and should be nerfed.

So what, getting hit by multiple ships focusing BO or CRF on me at the same time has an even greater effect. This whole idea that when more people coordinate it becomes nastier is obvious for any power. That is just coordinating a theme. You see it all the time.

So what....

And frankly i will stop running faw, when I can actually see my opponents again. Right now all I can see is fighter, mines, more fighters, photonic fleet, MVAM parts and on and on and on.

Because this PvEvP has pretty much made me play this game like once a month now, where I used to pvp about 6 hours a day.

The community here whines about things that are not broken, because somebody blew them up

They abuse broken powers to get an edge.

Then they come on here and brag about how awesome they are as they community shrinks from having to deal with their garbage.

Look around.. PVP is DYING. And you only have yourselves to blame for the whole situation.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 63
08-29-2011, 04:26 PM
If you think massed CRF gets the same result as massed faws you either haven't seen anyone with even half a brain fawing en mass, or you haven't been paying attention.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 64
08-29-2011, 04:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaruslothran View Post
But that holds true with most any power in the game. Run into a them based team with any power stacked and you can have problems. SS team, GW team..etc. The idea that it becomes overpowered if and only if somebody else is using one too is the same as me saying that 2 ships beating on me at the same time is OP and should be nerfed.

So what, getting hit by multiple ships focusing BO or CRF on me at the same time has an even greater effect. This whole idea that when more people coordinate it becomes nastier is obvious for any power. That is just coordinating a theme. You see it all the time.

So what....

And frankly i will stop running faw, when I can actually see my opponents again. Right now all I can see is fighter, mines, more fighters, photonic fleet, MVAM parts and on and on and on.

Because this PvEvP has pretty much made me play this game like once a month now, where I used to pvp about 6 hours a day.

The community here whines about things that are not broken, because somebody blew them up

They abuse broken powers to get an edge.

Then they come on here and brag about how awesome they are as they community shrinks from having to deal with their garbage.

Look around.. PVP is DYING. And you only have yourselves to blame for the whole situation.
SS III is limited, and SS II and I share slots with excellent heals, giving an opportunity cost. Same thing with Grav Well (either CPB or a Lvl III heal).

Same thing with rapid fire - give up hull and shields instead.


FAWs opportunity cost is tact team, but with ACs you can have those and two FAWs anyways.


Poor argument.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 65
08-29-2011, 04:46 PM
Last post on this subject, then I am doing better things for another month, as this game is just falling apart at the seams and ****'s PvP is a heck of a lot more interesting than this iteration of Dungeons and Dragons in space.

FAW has been effectively fixed. You whiners here crying about special scenarios and whatnot will never be happy until any power that you feel is different that you like to use is completely useless.

No matter what somebody says to you, you believe you are right. I have heard many arguments and have changed my mind on many things as I have listened and learned in the past.

This is not one of those times I am going to change my mind. Because if you make this power any less, it will be back to what it was before they tried to make it better. Sorry, but that is just true.

Some people cannot be reasoned with. Welcome to the internet.

The power has been nerfed nearly 60% of what it was in the last iteration and you guys still think it is OP.

It is apparently now so OP that nobody uses it as well... which is just a jaw dropping statement at best. This coming from a community of players that will stack every broken skill 10 deep at the first chance they can get then complains about how PvP is slowly dying when people stop queuing up any more.

The game is becoming a stale piece of garbage in both the PvE and PvP department (though PvE had a greater head start in the beginning..now PvP has raced past it).

Almost every good player has left the game for other games, leaving the so called "elite" to stand around screaming how great they are. Let me tell you something. Your not. Sorry, but there are a lot of better players who stay in the shadows because we grow weary of your garbage and chest thumping. We have nothing to prove and keep hoping for a better game as it falls apart.

It is like watching a bunch of flies buzzing around on the pile of horse apples screaming "I'm number 1".

Who cares?

So just keep listing straw man scenarios about "Well if they do this and that and have one of these on a Friday when the moon is full,.. blah blah blah.".

It does not change the fact that there are real issues that need addressing. None of them found in this whole topic.

Not one.

P.s. I am a lifer and I never said I am leaving. I check the game's changes once a month for a few days to see what is fixed, broke, or better. This month..more of the same, but FAW is now fixed. Have a good month on the horse apple my little flies
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 66
08-29-2011, 04:56 PM
Victory Beagles!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 67
08-29-2011, 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaruslothran View Post
Last post on this subject, then I am doing better things for another month, as this game is just falling apart at the seams and ****'s PvP is a heck of a lot more interesting than this iteration of Dungeons and Dragons in space.
Worst "I'm leaving" thread ever.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 68
08-29-2011, 11:45 PM
Let's look at this from another angle...

Was New FAW™ (FAW3.0) broken/too powerful/whatever-you-want-to-refer-to-it-as? Absolutely, from the supposed (I say 'supposed' because it still is unusually accurate, but that seems to be more related to Beams in general, than, necessarily, FAW itself) Accuracy bug, to the excessive volume of firepower, it was blatantly obvious that a fix/tweak/nerf (or, if you prefer, NERF :p ) was necessary.

The list of proposed fixes was as long as it was varied... The chosen "fix"... Reducing the up-time...

So, instead of actually fixing the 'mechanics' that made FAW broken, the "fix" was to just make it so it happens slightly less often... While, at the same time, actually reducing FAW's effectiveness for what it is supposed to be utilized to do, which is to clear spam and provide slight-to-moderate pressure damage to multiple targets.

Why is it:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaruslothran
It is apparently now so OP that nobody uses it as well
Because the problems that made it OP in the first place were not addressed, simply by a slight reduction in up-time. Taking a broken mechanic and making it so that you can use it a little less frequently is barely a band-aid, let alone a "fix" that solves the underlying problem.

-BRJ


Oh, and if there are "a lot of [so-called] better players who stay in the shadows," then they should get off their high horses and rather than 'think' that they understand the game better than anyone, they should join in regular PvP, join in the Community discussions, and try to help the Devs to steer the game in that "better" direction by offering constructive feedback and criticism. Everyone can be an armchair general or Monday morning quarterback, but unless they are the ones actually playing the game, their opinions will only ever be just that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 69
08-30-2011, 01:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FurQue
Because we cant use it, no one feels like they can use, becuase its so OP, which means we cant use mines.

Its not rocket science
You have my personal authorization to use it again*. Use it as much as you want.

Because if you don't, and that really leads to almost no one using it anymore, than we won'T get any further bug fixes.

Empiric evidence showed us how OP the snix-BFAW was. But that one is gone. We have a new one. We don't know if it's OP. So get on with it, prove us how OP it is.

I am not saying you are wrong. But I am saying that you won't see any improvements on the skill if you don't show it off. You can stop again once there has been sufficient evidence (and QQ) on the forums.

*) Haha. As if that means anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedJedi
Because the problems that made it OP in the first place were not addressed, simply by a slight reduction in up-time. Taking a broken mechanic and making it so that you can use it a little less frequently is barely a band-aid, let alone a "fix" that solves the underlying problem.
It depends on "how" broken an ability is. BFAW is not an instant kill power. What made it so deadly was that it was up the entire time and was unaffected by accuracy/defense, leading to a high hit rate. There was no point of relief where you could hope to recover some cooldowns to prepare for the next series of BFAW shots. But I think there might now be one.
There is a difference between 250 % damage for 75 % of the time and 250 % damage for 50 % of the time.

We need to gather new "evidence" to make sure it's broken or not. Maybe it still is.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 70
08-30-2011, 01:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
We need to gather new "evidence" to make sure it's broken or not. Maybe it still is.
I don't think it is. A healing oriented cruiser now has middle of the pack damage chaining two copies of FAW, even running full weapons power.

Sure, you can still get some pretty big output in a properly set up tactical cruiser, but that's what the point of flying a tactical cruiser should be in the first place: increased damage over time at the expense of burst.

There might be a couple of non-balance related issues left, but the actual balance seems good now. In fact, I'm starting to see more and more people returning to spam as a means to assert control.
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