Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
09-17-2011, 11:44 AM
Too bad you aren't a Tac because the Excelsior is by far the best cruiser of the Feds! I know, the design is old and bad looking and it's annoying me too, but the ugly duckling acts like a screaming eagle in combat.
And no more silly beams in this ship, only antiproton cannons and turrets to maximize the dps. You must be a novice in this game, you've to learn by doing and listen good advices. Patience and perseverance...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
09-17-2011, 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigduckie
2 epts3's? isnt that a dash selfish?
I don't see how. I use it to stay alive when focus fired on while my team can roam freely. That's what a tank does.
Healer and tank isn't the same thing. by now I am back in an assault cruiser and tend to lean more to an offensive role anyway.

And I have spare officers to fall back on if more of a healing role is required
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
09-17-2011, 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timelord_Victorious
I don't see how. I use it to stay alive when focus fired on while my team can roam freely. That's what a tank does.
Healer and tank isn't the same thing. by now I am back in an assault cruiser and tend to lean more to an offensive role anyway.

And I have spare officers to fall back on if more of a healing role is required
I love when I see cruisers running 2 copies of EPTS 3... it means I can igore them and kill all their friends as they warp back in.

"Tank" play stands out in this game and most expericnced people will just ignore you. The only cruisers I try to remove are the ones healing people. If their good at it they keep the escorts up long enough to make it very hard to do that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
09-17-2011, 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husanak View Post
I love when I see cruisers running 2 copies of EPTS 3... it means I can igore them and kill all their friends as they warp back in.

"Tank" play stands out in this game and most expericnced people will just ignore you. The only cruisers I try to remove are the ones healing people. If their good at it they keep the escorts up long enough to make it very hard to do that.
Couldn't agree more. Weird thought process in this game with players who think the ability to survive translates to being good at pvp. I think this comes from the silly 1v1's ppl want to do, as if any of that matters in a rock/paper/scissors type team game. . If you build your ship for 1v1's, your going to fail in a team. If you're in a cruiser, you are support, so drop the rsp's, the Shield 3's, and hit the teamplayer button, cause otherwise you might as well be an NPC as far as I"m concerned...
*decloaks and kills your team while you float about lazily doing nothing for the match.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
09-17-2011, 12:40 PM
Here's a few things of note:-

1v1 - Unless your opponent is a poor player or you've sacrificed some of you tanking skills for damage skills, you will not win this. Sacrifice your tanking abilities though and you may find yourself popping like a zit when you get focus fired. Even the supposed "squishy" escort will be able to tank you.

I personally got so sick of how pathetic cruiser damage is, that I switched to a Fleet Escort (and beyond the lack of Trek feel and appearance, I have no regrets). A cruiser certainly adds to the damage, but you'll never be a real threat by yourself.

Galaxy Refit - The Boff stations and the "special" ability give the illusion that it's the superior Fed cruiser. It's not. The special ability is a nigh useless gimmick and it's poor turnrate makes it a sitting duck. Yes, the special ability does help with that, but at a cost to your other tanking specific stats.

Offensively speaking the best cruisers to use are the Assault Cruiser and the Excelsior, both of which have a better turnrate then the Gal-R. Heck, the Assault Cruiser is most probably the better tanker in comparison to the Galaxy.

Borg set - Get at least the Borg console, deflector and engines. With 3/4 of the full set you get two nice procs, one which auto heals hull and another which auto heals shields. In a fight you'll probably see at least one of these going off once.

Field Generator Mk XI - I'm sure you must have this, but in case you don't then do get this, it's a must have for PvP. What it does is boost your shield capacity by 35%, but be aware it doesn't stack.

Directed Energy Modulation 3 - If you're really serious about dealing more damage, this is a great ability (especially when using single cannons and turrets). What it does is add bonus damage onto energy weapons, with the bonus damage actually bypassing shields altogether. Since it gives a bonus to each hit, weapons with a rapid firing rate benefit the most.

Torps - virtually useless on a cruiser sadly. I know, it's heresy, but the problem with torps is that it's damage is negated by a slither of shield. Given shield tanking as it is in this game, that's pretty likely.

Fire at Will - outside of 1v1's and mine/spam clearing it's not an ability you should be using, since it leaves your damage unfocused.

Antiproton - In my own personal opinion, the only worthwhile antiproton weapon are the dual heavy cannons (which when a bolt crits, it does the same if not more damage then a torpedo. Even then, it's only really of any use when used by a tac captain, since attack pattern alpha ups the crit chance.

Plasma - Aside from the fact no one really takes hull resist consoles to defend against it, it's a bit pathetic. The plasma fire deals hardly any damage. Certainly not worth the points spent in it. Phasers and disruptors are pretty much the optimal weapons to use, especially since phasers cost so little in skill points, yet they can disable major systems (like shields). Again though, this is just my opinion.

Mixing energy weapons - generally not so good due to the skill costs, (especially in the case of plasma and antiproton).

Picking Targets- This can be quite hard, since sometimes there are no real ways to judge the skill level of a player or how easy they are to destroy. For example, logically speaking an engineer in a cruiser should be much harder to take down then a tactical in a escort, yet I've found some engineer captain cruisers dying the fastest.

To give me time to assess the opposing team, I'll use the social window (press "o") and check out what the opposing team is made up of. Generally tacs in cruisers are the third most squishiest target. Second being escorts and first being Bird of Prey. That said, there's isn't much difference in a cruisers and escorts shields.

Then the hard part is deciding whether to go after the biggest threat or the easiest target.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
09-17-2011, 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timelord_Victorious
I don't see how. I use it to stay alive when focus fired on while my team can roam freely. That's what a tank does.
Healer and tank isn't the same thing. by now I am back in an assault cruiser and tend to lean more to an offensive role anyway.

And I have spare officers to fall back on if more of a healing role is required
There are two things to being a good tank:
- Getting the enemy to attack you
- Surviving the attacks you take.

There are no abilities at all in this game that enable you to do the first. None. There is no special aggro mechanic (especially not against players), no marking mechanic, nothing. If you don't deal a ton of damage on your own, or do a lot of crowd control to annoy your enemies, you're just not a viable target (unless you happen to have shields made of wet paper, in which case you fail the second part, unfortunately.)

Some people hoped that Antimatter Spread could turn into a power supporting a "tanky" play style, making enemies automatically target you or something like that. Unfortunately, Cryptic rather made it another defensive power that makes target ignore you. So we're back to square one - no powers to draw the enemies attention.

So the only way to contribute to your team's successs in PvP, as a Cruiser, is:
- Deal significant continual damage. You can't do spike, at least not even close to the level Escorts can do. But you can be a source of pressure, meaning that you force the enemy to expend heals to deal with your constant damage, allowing escorts to jump in then and overwheml the enemy with spike damage for which he no longer has any reserve heals left.
- Keep your team alive with heals.

In either case, you will need your high level Engineering Abilities to facilitate that role. For damage, Directed Energy Modulation is the best choice (Eject Warp Plasma having mostly turned by the wayside, since the counters are often available.). For healing a mix of Engineering Team 2/3, Auxillary to Structiral Integrity I to III, and Extend Shields I to III.
The lower tier slots should be reserved for Emergency Power to Shields (whatever you can fit in high is good, but might cost you your support ability) and possibly Emergency Power to Auxillary (healer with focus on Aux2SIF and some science heals, probably Star Cruiser) or EPtW (DPSer, probably Assault Cruiser or Advanced Heavy Cruiser Retrofit)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
09-17-2011, 01:43 PM
Thank you for all of your replies...

I am starting to beleive that in PvP I do not really want to 'tank' after all.

I want to upset and annoy people by killing them or destroying their ability to fight - tanking is not for me, and I think I may have th wrong ship for PvP - darn.

I THOUGHT I had the wrong ship before in the Nebula retrofit cruiser, which has a nice shield bonus, target subsystem ability, a 'workable' turn rate, and more hull points than science or escort ships, but its special ability in the tachyon detection grid seems useless unless dealing with klingons, and it has only 3 weapon slots for and aft.

BUT my performance in the Galaxy has not been any better. So I am open to moving to another ship, just not an escort, it is not my style.

What occasionally seemed to work for me is hitting someone with several debuffs at once in an alpha strike with the Nebula - Viral Matrix, tractor, disable shield subsystem, possibly jam sensors, then fire in some high yields or beam overloads. The only drawback with this of course is that it takes some time to recharge some of those abilities.

So it would seem that going back to phaser weapons is a good choice, and respecing the anitproton and plasma skills to something else.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
09-17-2011, 02:05 PM
If you haven't tried a sci ship perhaps you should. You did mention you are a sci captain. A sci ship does sound like it may fit you play style alot more.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
09-17-2011, 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gugeyewalker View Post
Ok guys I spend most of my time in the foundry (when it is up - you guys whine about pvp, but tis nothing compared to what foundry authors go through).

I remember the first strategy game I had a tremendous aptitude for was Starfleet Command – which has starship combat comparable to this, but mostly 1 on 1 and at a slower pace. It was more like the starship combat in Wrath of Khan, I had time to assess the situation, formulate a strategy, and use patient timing to affect victory. This is different of course....

I am now a Vice Admiral – cruiser skipper. I prefer cruisers because I like to stay alive and in the fight. I had to give up my beloved retrofitted Nebula class cruiser realizing that the Retrofit Galaxy has more consoles and two more weapon slots - although it turns so awefully.

But I still suck. No I am not TERRIBLE and never last in damage and healing. But I am just not that good!
I have all Very Rare crafted weapons, Reman Covariant shields, some Rare crafted consoles – I like antiproton and plasma beam arrays and quantum torpedos (1 fore 1 aft) – you’d think I have a fairly decent build.

I understand what all the crew abilities do – my reaction time is a little slow but its not bad. I sometimes have trouble figuring out which target to take, but often have little time to be picky, and sometimes get ‘stuck’ with one that just won’t die!

It also sometimes takes me a while to get good positioning and get into the fight.
I have been using rapid beam tactical ability a lot – the beams fly out in all directions and seem to hit everyone fast – it just looks so cool, and seems to at least do a lot of shield damage (utilizing weapons to fire at targets in all firing arc rather than just the one I have targeted), but really wish I had another tactical slot or just something that would help me make a nice quick KILL – the cannon people have rapid fire cannons and when properly focused and timed I find that there is just little or nothing you can do about this.

So what could I be doing better to get me in the top 2 or 3??
Very simple, play alot of PvP.
Analyze your build, analyze what something else uses on you, know the aspects of the game, abilities. Forum is full of false and true information. Best way is to learn yourself. If you really want it, you can become an awesome PvP'er in a few months. :]

kthxbye
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
09-17-2011, 03:23 PM
Feel free to go 8 beams with a damage oriented Cruiser, but if you go to a heal boat you can safely slap on a pair of Chroniton Mine launchers to wreak havoc with cloaked ships or running Escorts. Something more advanced would also have a Tricobalt launcher on the back of your healer to ruin an Escorts day. I can't tell you how many times I've Phaser shield proc'd or CPB'd an Escort on my Intrepid's tail and insta-pop them with a point blank 40k+ Tric.
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