Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
09-30-2011, 01:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHappyJoyJoy View Post
This is flat across all ranks?



And what will this entail?
Dilithium earning is flat across all ranks, but higher-ranked characters have more things that they can do. For instance, you don't get access to the Defera daily missions until level 49, so once you have those, you have a new set of missions that will reward dilithium.

Right now the refinery step will basically be a UI element. In the future we might do special things like having the ability to refine dilithium in your ship interior for a bonus if you have the right Duty Officer, having a dilithium refining station that is open for short windows during events where you can get extra refined dilithium from your ore, etc., but for the moment it'll be pretty straightforward.

The Starfleet Academy daily is awarding an early scale dilithium reward, and that should get adjusted up next time I have a chance to take a look at the reward tables there.

One reason for the high amount of dilithium is that it allows us to easily say "sure, we'll give you 100 dilithium for that" without worrying too much about giving things out. With emblems, the fact that you got 1 emblem for a 15 minute mission meant that we had no way to give you partial rewards for short missions, Lore missions, Duty Officer assignments, etc. Plus, we started adding emblems to a lot of missions and overloading the ways to get them, which skewed their availability. We're hoping to keep a tighter rein on the economy with dilithium, so that we can tell how long it takes to earn things, what people are doing to earn it, and when we can give out bonuses for special events.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
09-30-2011, 01:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jheinig View Post
Dilithium earning is flat across all ranks, but higher-ranked characters have more things that they can do. For instance, you don't get access to the Defera daily missions until level 49, so once you have those, you have a new set of missions that will reward dilithium.

Right now the refinery step will basically be a UI element. In the future we might do special things like having the ability to refine dilithium in your ship interior for a bonus if you have the right Duty Officer, having a dilithium refining station that is open for short windows during events where you can get extra refined dilithium from your ore, etc., but for the moment it'll be pretty straightforward.

The Starfleet Academy daily is awarding an early scale dilithium reward, and that should get adjusted up next time I have a chance to take a look at the reward tables there.

One reason for the high amount of dilithium is that it allows us to easily say "sure, we'll give you 100 dilithium for that" without worrying too much about giving things out. With emblems, the fact that you got 1 emblem for a 15 minute mission meant that we had no way to give you partial rewards for short missions, Lore missions, Duty Officer assignments, etc. Plus, we started adding emblems to a lot of missions and overloading the ways to get them, which skewed their availability. We're hoping to keep a tighter rein on the economy with dilithium, so that we can tell how long it takes to earn things, what people are doing to earn it, and when we can give out bonuses for special events.
Ok.
So, as of right now, we will be awarded 1400 for a starcluster explore/nebula explore right?
Will this be an everytime thing, or like a Daily with the Starclusters/Nebulas, because since Nebulas are the primary grind method for the KDF (as of right now on Holodeck), wouldn't that seem to give an edge to the KDF side if it weren't a once Daily?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
09-30-2011, 02:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jheinig View Post
Dilithium earning is flat across all ranks, but higher-ranked characters have more things that they can do. For instance, you don't get access to the Defera daily missions until level 49, so once you have those, you have a new set of missions that will reward dilithium.
Hmm.

I'm curious as to how this will work out.

Does this mean that Exploration Missions, which previously rewarded Badges every half hour, will now reward less frequently? If not then how will the opportunity to farm more often be worthwhile when, on average, a trip through Delta Volcanis takes about 30 minutes. Seems like you don't need more opportunities and thus wouldn't benefit from them.

Or will Dailies be worth higher amounts than the flat rates for typical exploration? Thus higher ranked characters benefit by having access to more Dailies.

Either way, higher ranked character are expected to somehow earn more Dilithium per period than, for instance, a Lieutenant Commander, yes? Since higher tiered ships are more expensive one has to imagine this is going to be the case. If so, then how are lower ranked characters expected to compete with higher ranked characters in the Dilithium-for-CPoints auction market?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jheinig View Post
Right now the refinery step will basically be a UI element.
So... click and done?

I'm not sure I see a purpose to this. Seems like it's just an unnecessary step since you can't use it unrefined, right? So... why not simply offer the rewards as refined dilithium and cut out the middleman?

Plans to do more with it in the future is all well and good, but it seems like it's added another currency and level of complexity for sake of doing that and that alone at the moment... unless there's something else involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jheinig View Post
One reason for the high amount of dilithium is that it allows us to easily say "sure, we'll give you 100 dilithium for that" without worrying too much about giving things out. With emblems, the fact that you got 1 emblem for a 15 minute mission meant that we had no way to give you partial rewards for short missions, Lore missions, Duty Officer assignments, etc. Plus, we started adding emblems to a lot of missions and overloading the ways to get them, which skewed their availability. We're hoping to keep a tighter rein on the economy with dilithium, so that we can tell how long it takes to earn things, what people are doing to earn it, and when we can give out bonuses for special events.
In that case can we have the currency display system broken up similar to what Champions does? With Gold (globals) Silver (nationals) and Bronze (locals) and each being worth 100 of the lower grouping?

When you start running into 136503023241 you end up having to do a lot of digit counting to figure out what you're spending.

Breaking it up may seem like a small thing, but it can really help.

Perhaps something as simple Barrels being smallest denomination, and 100 Barrels of Dilithium (Bronze) buys you one Crate of Dilithium (Silver), and 100 Crates of Dilithium buys you one Freight Container of Dilithium (Gold). Something like that...?

Breaking it up like that has worked really well for Champions and made it really easy to see how much is involved at a glance.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
09-30-2011, 02:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jheinig View Post
For instance, you don't get access to the Defera daily missions until level 49, so once you have those, you have a new set of missions that will reward dilithium.
Sorry level 49 for our basic daily..
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
09-30-2011, 04:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHappyJoyJoy View Post
Hmm.

I'm curious as to how this will work out.

Does this mean that Exploration Missions, which previously rewarded Badges every half hour, will now reward less frequently? If not then how will the opportunity to farm more often be worthwhile when, on average, a trip through Delta Volcanis takes about 30 minutes. Seems like you don't need more opportunities and thus wouldn't benefit from them.

Or will Dailies be worth higher amounts than the flat rates for typical exploration? Thus higher ranked characters benefit by having access to more Dailies.

Either way, higher ranked character are expected to somehow earn more Dilithium per period than, for instance, a Lieutenant Commander, yes? Since higher tiered ships are more expensive one has to imagine this is going to be the case. If so, then how are lower ranked characters expected to compete with higher ranked characters in the Dilithium-for-CPoints auction market?



So... click and done?

I'm not sure I see a purpose to this. Seems like it's just an unnecessary step since you can't use it unrefined, right? So... why not simply offer the rewards as refined dilithium and cut out the middleman?

Plans to do more with it in the future is all well and good, but it seems like it's added another currency and level of complexity for sake of doing that and that alone at the moment... unless there's something else involved.



In that case can we have the currency display system broken up similar to what Champions does? With Gold (globals) Silver (nationals) and Bronze (locals) and each being worth 100 of the lower grouping?

When you start running into 136503023241 you end up having to do a lot of digit counting to figure out what you're spending.

Breaking it up may seem like a small thing, but it can really help.

Perhaps something as simple Barrels being smallest denomination, and 100 Barrels of Dilithium (Bronze) buys you one Crate of Dilithium (Silver), and 100 Crates of Dilithium buys you one Freight Container of Dilithium (Gold). Something like that...?

Breaking it up like that has worked really well for Champions and made it really easy to see how much is involved at a glance.
I don't like the CO way.

Why not simply do it with "," or "."?

136,503,023,241 or 136.503.023.241 is still fairly easy to read, IMO.

I am not convinced the refinement process is worth it, either. Unneccessary complication most of the time, and it might be simpler to abstract stuff like refinement process as simply a source for extra dilithium.

Besides that the whole idea we use dilithium as base of the economy doesn't seem to relate to canon in any way. The Federatino may trade in dilitihium - Federation Captains do not.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
09-30-2011, 05:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidacidd
someone in game said they got 16 dilitium from that new SF academy daily... I haven't found any anywhere else.. and the first ships you can buy at Ltc cost 70,000 dilitium...
Prices probably change but it HAS to be grindy or no one will trade C-Credits for Dilithium.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
09-30-2011, 05:41 AM
Sounds to me as if everything is being tweaked to slow down the fast pace of leveling and acquisistion that we may used to these last years to push us into making that classic F2P choice, " Do I grind or swipe ?"

Grinding takes time to reach satisfaction of the virtual carrot and swiping gives quick service.

Ohh, PW does know how to do F2P.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
09-30-2011, 06:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
Sounds to me as if everything is being tweaked to slow down the fast pace of leveling and acquisistion that we may used to these last years to push us into making that classic F2P choice, " Do I grind or swipe ?"

Grinding takes time to reach satisfaction of the virtual carrot and swiping gives quick service.

Ohh, PW does know how to do F2P.
The odd thing is that leveling is faster on Tribble right now.


Z
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
09-30-2011, 06:25 AM
Only low level leveling is faster. From the patch notes, it seems that will be the way it is at launch too.

Lt was always far too slow and grindy anyway.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
09-30-2011, 06:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHappyJoyJoy View Post
...
So... click and done?

I'm not sure I see a purpose to this. Seems like it's just an unnecessary step since you can't use it unrefined, right? So... why not simply offer the rewards as refined dilithium and cut out the middleman?

Plans to do more with it in the future is all well and good, but it seems like it's added another currency and level of complexity for sake of doing that and that alone at the moment... unless there's something else involved.
I agree with HHJJ here... Truely I mean no personal offense to Crpytic Employees, but the honest to God fact is that there have been _TOO_MANY_ ideas, hopes, dreams, suggestions, promises, and other assorted "things we'd like/want to do in the future" at Cryptic that simply never get done. Unless this really is something you guys are actively working on that will be done in the next week or three, then please just skip this unneccessary step.

If you some day want to give us a bonus for using our ship interior or put in a special DOFF, you can just add that as a line in the story "You have better refined some dilithium, here's a bonus 100 units" or whatever. Make that the extra click. Don't add a step/middleman for every transaction we ever always have to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHappyJoyJoy View Post
In that case can we have the currency display system broken up similar to what Champions does? With Gold (globals) Silver (nationals) and Bronze (locals) and each being worth 100 of the lower grouping?... Breaking it up like that has worked really well for Champions and made it really easy to see how much is involved at a glance.
Oh God No, please no no no no. I'm sorry HHJJ, but that kind of break up is annoying. The Archancellor Ridcully is correct. Adding a visual element like a comma for each factor of one thousand is all that should be needed.

I don't want to have to do conversions in my head every time I get a crate or barrel worth of dilithium.
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