Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
10-06-2011, 09:58 AM
@OP

What's the point in engies?

1) Survival
2) Healing

Next question??

You know, I think what I notice a lot when people say something is "crap", what they really mean is it's "crap for the way I personally play the game"

Engies are fine. Beams are fine. Get over it.

@WCnighthawk

FAW also boosts damage. Beams also gain improvement from attack patters just like cannons, so, with 2 direct damage buffs for beams and 2 direct damage buffs for cannons, what are you talking about? Beams in fact get a THIRD skill associated with them(personally I don't understand why cannons can't target subs myself). I fail to see how you can claim them worthless, especially more worthless than before anybody even bothered using FAW. BO3 is one of the biggest single strike hits you can get.

Who in their right mind would chose beams over cannons? Ask those of us who also run target subs builds for one (when FAW was the big thing for two). It's hella fun. You don't need cannon level firepower when you can take down a facing shield or the whole system like *clicks fingers* that. Or reduce their defence to -15% when they stop dead in their tracks, and you don't need to worry about out-shooting or tanking them when you reduce their weapons to such a level they'd be better of throwing rocks out the shuttle-bay. All the while you wail on them consistently with your massive firing arcs, while they struggle to even keep you in their sights. Add in some chroniton mines if you really fancy it, and you've got one hell of a potent escort neutraliser.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
10-06-2011, 10:23 AM
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by admneal View Post
I'm not sure what the benefits of playing a Eng are in pvp....
They normally make a vessel very hard to kill but suffer a decided lack of firepower as compared to the Tacs. (or even Sci - imo)

Quote:
If the dev's are suck on the holy trinity thing... can everyone have a equally important role?
the Trinity was a mistake from th begining in my opinion. They should have gone with a wieght class/Design class approach in my opinion. Then they could have broken it down farther by rank. (ie: A LT would start with the smallest wieght class vessel of thier proffession).

The wieght and design class could then determine what all could be used BOffwise and equipmentwise on said vessels.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
10-06-2011, 11:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artificialx
@OP

What's the point in engies?

1) Survival
2) Healing

Next question??

You know, I think what I notice a lot when people say something is "crap", what they really mean is it's "crap for the way I personally play the game"

Engies are fine. Beams are fine. Get over it.

@WCnighthawk

FAW also boosts damage. Beams also gain improvement from attack patters just like cannons, so, with 2 direct damage buffs for beams and 2 direct damage buffs for cannons, what are you talking about? Beams in fact get a THIRD skill associated with them(personally I don't understand why cannons can't target subs myself). I fail to see how you can claim them worthless, especially more worthless than before anybody even bothered using FAW. BO3 is one of the biggest single strike hits you can get.

Who in their right mind would chose beams over cannons? Ask those of us who also run target subs builds for one (when FAW was the big thing for two). It's hella fun. You don't need cannon level firepower when you can take down a facing shield or the whole system like *clicks fingers* that. Or reduce their defence to -15% when they stop dead in their tracks, and you don't need to worry about out-shooting or tanking them when you reduce their weapons to such a level they'd be better of throwing rocks out the shuttle-bay. All the while you wail on them consistently with your massive firing arcs, while they struggle to even keep you in their sights. Add in some chroniton mines if you really fancy it, and you've got one hell of a potent escort neutraliser.

If you bothered to read the post, the main point was - what good is it that my best heal buys a person a few extra secs of life before they are blown up anyway?

Playing the game from day one.... I have seen every version of the game. I feel that the game has got to a point where the extremes are too crazy. 30k crits, 3 cruisers firing on escorts and do next to nothing in damage, sci spam. The constant "upgrades" of powers and gear sets just break a flawed system even more.

As far, as your rant on beams, I yet to see a half decent escort not have the ability to keep targets in their arcs. From what I see most just follow a target and just keep blasting until they get the kill. Damage output have zero restrictions on how high you can push them, and escorts having far too good of defenses is one of the main sources of imbalance. Sub Nub in another overused and exploited power, that while counter-able, effects game play in a way no other class gets.

At this point, with nothing new to do in the game, pvp was something I could turn to have some fun. Not really anymore....12/20 cant get here fast enough!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
10-06-2011, 11:53 AM
This again.

No Engi Team will not save someone under focus fire. It never will alone. Install an Aux to sif on your boat if you want to save someone... and hit them with engi team AND aux to sif... this will give them even more heal and a dmg resist for 15 seconds that likely will save their bacon.

If you really want to save them don't worry about their hull at all... hit them with an Extend shields.

Healing is as broken as it has ever been, your using the wrong heal is the issue.

Engi team is a great hull top up obviously, it is the highest hit point heal you can cast on someone..... the trade for such an awsome amount of heal is NO resist at all with it. Install even an Aux to sif 1 on your build and combo the two on a focus fired buddy... and he will be in much better shape. Between that and an extend shields... or an engi fleet (Yes this skill is not garbage... just use it when your friends shields are bingo) you really should have no problem tanking multiple escorts.

As too beams... I seem to remember a while back people telling you that in order to kill anyone you need burst damage. Engi team 3 so your obviously still in a cruiser... which is fine... The ONLY burst options you have are Beam Overload and Torpedo HY and Spread.... install one of them if you EVER want to kill anything.... no that doesn't mean beams are weak... install cannons on your cruiser and you will still NOT kill anything, alone with no burst. Most of us don't care for the insane healing that makes Ultra burst necessary however its sort of working as intended at the moment like it or not.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
10-06-2011, 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by admneal View Post
If you bothered to read the post, the main point was - what good is it that my best heal buys a person a few extra secs of life before they are blown up anyway?

Playing the game from day one.... I have seen every version of the game. I feel that the game has got to a point where the extremes are too crazy. 30k crits, 3 cruisers firing on escorts and do next to nothing in damage, sci spam. The constant "upgrades" of powers and gear sets just break a flawed system even more.

As far, as your rant on beams, I yet to see a half decent escort not have the ability to keep targets in their arcs. From what I see most just follow a target and just keep blasting until they get the kill. Damage output have zero restrictions on how high you can push them, and escorts having far too good of defenses is one of the main sources of imbalance. Sub Nub in another overused and exploited power, that while counter-able, effects game play in a way no other class gets.

At this point, with nothing new to do in the game, pvp was something I could turn to have some fun. Not really anymore....12/20 cant get here fast enough!

A great healer has to prioritize heals and have run with some very good healers and with there heals and my heals I can ride out most alphas and a good bit of focus. A healer is meant heal and also force the other team to make a decision keep blasting a concrete wall r pick another target that is not the focus of the healer. A true healer for the most part can't kill so the healer has to keep the killer on the team a live so he can do what he does best and that is kill and stay in a fight.

Roach, after playing World of Tanks that is how it is set up. You have different classes Tank killers, general tanks, artillery you start off in small weak tanks and work your way up. a Tier 1 tank stands no chance against a tier 10 tank of course the general tank is broken into 3 categories like light, heavy, and medium tanks. While there is a little rock, paper scissors the game relies on tactics and innate abilities of the tanks. Arty hits from a distance, tank destroyers kill tanks but do not have manuvuerabilty and do not have 360 turrets where as light tanks move fast and hit softly and die quickly, mediums are a little slower but hit harder and are harder to kill and heavies move slow, hit really hard, and are hard to kill. To kill arty get in close, to kill a tank destroyer stay out of its frontal arc, to kill a general tank kill its tracks and make it stationary.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
10-06-2011, 12:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husanak View Post
This again.

No Engi Team will not save someone under focus fire. It never will alone. Install an Aux to sif on your boat if you want to save someone... and hit them with engi team AND aux to sif... this will give them even more heal and a dmg resist for 15 seconds that likely will save their bacon.

If you really want to save them don't worry about their hull at all... hit them with an Extend shields.

Healing is as broken as it has ever been, your using the wrong heal is the issue.

Engi team is a great hull top up obviously, it is the highest hit point heal you can cast on someone..... the trade for such an awsome amount of heal is NO resist at all with it. Install even an Aux to sif 1 on your build and combo the two on a focus fired buddy... and he will be in much better shape. Between that and an extend shields... or an engi fleet (Yes this skill is not garbage... just use it when your friends shields are bingo) you really should have no problem tanking multiple escorts.

As too beams... I seem to remember a while back people telling you that in order to kill anyone you need burst damage. Engi team 3 so your obviously still in a cruiser... which is fine... The ONLY burst options you have are Beam Overload and Torpedo HY and Spread.... install one of them if you EVER want to kill anything.... no that doesn't mean beams are weak... install cannons on your cruiser and you will still NOT kill anything, alone with no burst. Most of us don't care for the insane healing that makes Ultra burst necessary however its sort of working as intended at the moment like it or not.

I will just agree to disagree... before all the silly new sets the game was MUCH closer to being balanced than it is now. Everyone is an expert...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
10-06-2011, 01:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by admneal View Post
I will just agree to disagree... before all the silly new sets the game was MUCH closer to being balanced than it is now. Everyone is an expert...
No disagreement there... the set bonuses are too good... mostly. Aegis I feel is pretty well balanced, escorts traded a bit of shield cap for a bit of hull resist and defense. Borg sets are silly... and the extra heals where far from needed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
10-06-2011, 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
They normally make a vessel very hard to kill but suffer a decided lack of firepower as compared to the Tacs. (or even Sci - imo)
Really depends what they are flying. An eng cruiser has better DPS than a sci cruiser because eight beams drains a ton of power and an engineer has an easier time maintaining high power settings.

Sciscorts can be deadly because they are able to time high spike damage with debuffs like SNB and SS.

Sci/sci get a free lunch and can spec out of beams and weapons power entirely and just run all torpedoes (with maybe a single beam for target subs) without losing any kind of offensive ability.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
10-06-2011, 02:13 PM
Want to save someone from focus fire?

Give them a TacTeam, Extend 3, TSS 2, and a Hazard 1 (with an Aux to SIF if you're extra nice).

Fully maxed out, I think you can get EngTeam up to 14.5K. Not too shabby every 15 seconds - but shield healing >>>>> hull healing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
10-06-2011, 02:42 PM
I find it amusing that with all of the questionable and broken mechanics out there, apparently healing isn't strong enough for the poor Engineers, lol. As others have pointed out, Engineering Team is good for something like spike healing but spike healing can't do it all. Engineers aren't just about their Engineer Teams either.

Just like every other class that wants to be effective, you have to use other stuff with it.
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