Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 301
10-13-2011, 01:07 PM
Not happy that my VA ship token is still being taken away. It has nothing to do with the fact that I'm a lifer, but everything to do with the fact that I paid for the game. As in, I purchased a key that allowed me to create an account, which then allowed me to choose my subscription method.

With f2p, NOBODY will actually have to buy the game/purchase a key to play. You download, install, and play ALL for free.

So my thought is, anyone who actually bought STO (subscription method notwithstanding) should get free VA ship tokens. If you have a game key tied to your account, then you should get your free VA ship tokens. I'm talking about the standard retrofits that have been in the game already (Galaxy, Intrepid, and Defiant). I have ZERO issues with the Prommie retrofit or any other VA ship still requiring a Cstore purchase (heck, even I bought the Prommie retrofit and I love it dearly!).

I think this would be a great compromise as it would ensure that ALL existing players are recognized while still directing all new players to the Cstore.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 302
10-13-2011, 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by V-Mink
The DL<=>CP system will be a system that will be gamed, just like any other economic conversion system. And people with a lot more time and acumen and spreadsheets than you will beat you at this system every time. Just ask some of the former EVE players here. I'll wait.
And that is exactly why the removal of ships purchasable with in-game currency fails so hard.

Those with the spreadsheets will easily outcompete the normal casual gamer, and as such they will NEVER be able to obtain Vice Admiral ships or refits without being forced to open their wallets.

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Community Rules and Policies. ~Stormshade
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 303
10-13-2011, 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdangelo View Post
I checked with my team, and the "Danube Runabout" is indeed missing from the matrix on the "in-game" side. We'll get it added today.

The "Enterprise F" ship doesn't exist in a player usable form yet, so it's not on the matrix yet. We have internal versions of all the other newly announced ships, so they're on their way out of the shipyard and onto Tribble in the coming weeks.

The "Delta Flyer" and some other ships that were attainable in game through Emblem grinding have also been C-Store ships the whole time. The game version on Tribble currently has these ships as C-Store only and relies on the bigger picture Dilithium economy (which should show up in the next blog) for acquiring these in-game.

Thanks for the many opinions on the Vice Admiral ship. We'll do some more thinking on this topic.

Stephen D'Angelo
Executive Producer
Star Trek Online
Please run the "Veteran Reward for a VA Ship Token" idea past the bean counters. Subscribing for 30 days in order to get a free VA ship is reasonable in my opinion. They wouldn't get the Retrofit unlocked for every character on their account, they might be tempted to stay subscribed (if you add more reasons to), plus you got $14.99 from them so it's not like they get the ship for free after canceling.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 304
10-13-2011, 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_Armstrong View Post
So, whatever happened to being able to earn every ship in-game in some form or another?
The Dilithium System, which allows you to trade your in-game resource, for C-Points, provides this in-game method you are referring to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Protector View Post
Don't know if you noticed but ALL the VA ships in that matrix are C-Store only. No buying them with Dilithium at all.
Not directly no, but you can purchase C-Store Points with your Dilithium, from other players. Thus allowing you to purchase your VA ship with Dilithium.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkarris
Second, you listed the Chariot Klingon shuttle under C-Store, but ti says veteran reward right next to it? Which is it?
As Stephen mentioned, I made a boo-boo. It's been resolved, and the ship now appears under the proper column.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gym_Quirk
A minor item that appears to have slipped through the cracks:

What happened to the Danube-class Runabout? It isn't listed under either "In-game" or "C-store" category. (It's a reasonable improvement over the Type-8; keeping it as purchasable with EC or switching to a modest dilithium price seems workable.)
The Danube Runabout has also been added to the chart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamato
[color="RoyalBlue"]I've purchased almost all Ship-Related stuff in the C-Store (only the Klingon Ships, the VA Retrofits, and the Dreadnought Cruiser remain unpurchased). Will I keep whatever I purchased when the game goes F2P?

Also, I have a Tac Escort Retrofit on my STO Main which I got through the free VA Token. Will I be able to keep that ship when the game goes F2P?
Yes. Any and all purchases you have made in the c-store, or will make in the C-Store before F2P launch, will be honored.

Any ships which you have unlocked through normal play will remain unlocked, according to the current rules for those systems. So, as long as you don't discharge your Tac Escort Retrofit, you'll be able to keep it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
Agreed, its a whole load of crap.

They are screwing us out of unique endgame ships that we bloody well paid for to get with our subscription.
No, we're not. If you've already unlocked a ship, we're not taking it away from you. If you haven't unlocked the ship, there is still a very viable way for you to get said ship, by spending time instead of money. Just like there is now. Semantics aside (and yes, I understand that the semantics matter to you...) you will still be able to unlock any of these ships using a "time" based currency, that you earned in-game. The bonus is, that now instead of it being a character unlock, once you have put in that time, it will be an account wide unlock.

I understand that you, personally, do not like the new path we're taking to reach these results. However, the end result is actually better for those who choose to spend time instead of C-Points. Instead of spending time to get 500 Emblems in-game to unlock my Galaxy Retrofit, for each character I choose to level, I can now spend time to get the Dilithium I need to trade for C-Points, which I can then use to unlock my Galaxy Retrofit for all characters on my account.

The amount of time spent may be more, or may be less, than what I spent to unlock that same ship for one character. That's something we're going to be looking at on Tribble, and something that will be driven by the community. The real bonus here however, is now, I only have to spend that time once.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
Since it involves additional money in the equation it is not an in-game method.
This is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. However, from my point of view:

If I, as a gamer, can spend time to earn "money", should I have more time than I do money, that is good.

If I, as a gamer, am allowed to spend "money" to make up for a lack of time, this is also good.

I've been in situations where I felt that either one was "unfair". It's unfair that my friends who had more time than I could advance faster in MMOs I've played in the past. I felt like the low man on the totem pole, because I had to do things other than play said MMO.

I've also been in situations where friends who have more money than I could do more in an MMO than I could, even though I was capable of spending more time on said MMO than them.

So, in my opinion, allowing this kind of an exchange is a good thing. Because it prevents me from feeling like I've fallen behind mt friends due to a lack of time, or money.

If it's a lack of both that causes you to fall behind, well, we'll have to keep looking for a reasonable way to solve that one...

Thanks,

Stormshade
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 305
10-13-2011, 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormShade
I understand that you, personally, do not like the new path we're taking to reach these results. However, the end result is actually better for those who choose to spend time instead of C-Points. Instead of spending time to get 500 Emblems in-game to unlock my Galaxy Retrofit, for each character I choose to level, I can now spend time to get the Dilithium I need to trade for C-Points, which I can then use to unlock my Galaxy Retrofit for all characters on my account.

The amount of time spent may be more, or may be less, than what I spent to unlock that same ship for one character. That's something we're going to be looking at on Tribble, and something that will be driven by the community. The real bonus here however, is now, I only have to spend that time once.
If you think the new system will be better on the grinding front, then fine.
But at the very least give us back our Vice Admiral ship token, since a choice of a Vice Admiral ship was part of the package deal for reaching Vice Admiral when the level cap was raised, because it certainly was promoted as one of the main "highlights" for reaching Vice Admiral.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 306
10-13-2011, 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormShade
The Dilithium System, which allows you to trade your in-game resource, for C-Points, provides this in-game method you are referring to.



Not directly no, but you can purchase C-Store Points with your Dilithium, from other players. Thus allowing you to purchase your VA ship with Dilithium.



As Stephen mentioned, I made a boo-boo. It's been resolved, and the ship now appears under the proper column.



The Danube Runabout has also been added to the chart.



Yes. Any and all purchases you have made in the c-store, or will make in the C-Store before F2P launch, will be honored.

Any ships which you have unlocked through normal play will remain unlocked, according to the current rules for those systems. So, as long as you don't discharge your Tac Escort Retrofit, you'll be able to keep it.



No, we're not. If you've already unlocked a ship, we're not taking it away from you. If you haven't unlocked the ship, there is still a very viable way for you to get said ship, by spending time instead of money. Just like there is now. Semantics aside (and yes, I understand that the semantics matter to you...) you will still be able to unlock any of these ships using a "time" based currency, that you earned in-game. The bonus is, that now instead of it being a character unlock, once you have put in that time, it will be an account wide unlock.

I understand that you, personally, do not like the new path we're taking to reach these results. However, the end result is actually better for those who choose to spend time instead of C-Points. Instead of spending time to get 500 Emblems in-game to unlock my Galaxy Retrofit, for each character I choose to level, I can now spend time to get the Dilithium I need to trade for C-Points, which I can then use to unlock my Galaxy Retrofit for all characters on my account.

The amount of time spent may be more, or may be less, than what I spent to unlock that same ship for one character. That's something we're going to be looking at on Tribble, and something that will be driven by the community. The real bonus here however, is now, I only have to spend that time once.



This is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. However, from my point of view:

If I, as a gamer, can spend time to earn "money", should I have more time than I do money, that is good.

If I, as a gamer, am allowed to spend "money" to make up for a lack of time, this is also good.

I've been in situations where I felt that either one was "unfair". It's unfair that my friends who had more time than I could advance faster in MMOs I've played in the past. I felt like the low man on the totem pole, because I had to do things other than play said MMO.

I've also been in situations where friends who have more money than I could do more in an MMO than I could, even though I was capable of spending more time on said MMO than them.

So, in my opinion, allowing this kind of an exchange is a good thing. Because it prevents me from feeling like I've fallen behind mt friends due to a lack of time, or money.

If it's a lack of both that causes you to fall behind, well, we'll have to keep looking for a reasonable way to solve that one...

Thanks,

Stormshade
Just in case your post didn't get this point across: Everybody has resource to spend. These resources include, but are not limited to: Time, Money, effort, friendliness, etc. Time is Money. The more time you spend in game, the less time you have that you could have earned money with. Letting people spend either of these resources to advance is a good thing. Making it so that neither is more important than the other is KEY.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 307
10-13-2011, 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
Ummm no.... I am not.
The devs have repeated many times their plans for the economy.

The Idea is that players will "buy" C-Points and trade it with other players for dilithium.
While people who grind dilithium will trade it with other players for the C-Points that said players bought.
Why would I trade C-points for Dilithium? That is the answer we really want Cryptic!!

The new economy doesn't make sense... perhaps someone could enlighten us as to why dilithium would be worth trading REAL money for...?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 308
10-13-2011, 02:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekSlide
Why would I trade C-points for Dilithium? That is the answer we really want Cryptic!!

The new economy doesn't make sense... perhaps someone could enlighten us as to why dilithium would be worth trading REAL money for...?
Oh, it makes perfect sense. XI gear is going to take a long time to get, and can only be purcahsed with DL. So if you are someone who has more money than time then you can simply buy C-points and then trade them for the amount of DL you'll need to get the gear. Some people have more time than money, and other people have more money than time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 309
10-13-2011, 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormShade
This is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. However, from my point of view:

If I, as a gamer, can spend time to earn "money", should I have more time than I do money, that is good.

If I, as a gamer, am allowed to spend "money" to make up for a lack of time, this is also good.
Stormy, I'm not inherently against the dilithium system -- I'll admit, if I could drop a $20 or so on stuff in FFXI I probably would have just to avoid half the grind -- but there needs to be some sort of check on it. I'm extremely uncomfortable with the idea of some player with (as I said before) more time and spreadsheets than I do being able to dictate prices. That goes against the spirit of the DL exchange, doesn't it?

In short: What will Cryptic be doing to make sure the DL<=>CP exchange does not go wildly out of anyone's control except for a handful of people gaming the system? Does Cryptic have any plans in this eventuality? Do they have a plan B in case it does not perform as expected?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 310
10-13-2011, 02:50 PM
I sulk at the lack of Steamrunner on that list.
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