Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 101
10-16-2011, 01:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_Strife
I agree that PVP has to mean something to be worthwhile, and as a casual visitor to the forums and PVP I know my opinion won't mean much to anyone, but the idea of moving territory is something that got me thinking about something I saw in STOked episode 100 when one of the Devs mentioned an event that could give it's victors the opportunity to use a Dilithium Cracking plant to earn higher yields on refinement.

What if the neutral zone in it's default position contained a "neutral faction Dilithium Cracking Plant" that neither faction could use, unless the border was pushed back and the plant fell into one factions control or the others.

It wouldn't be much but a facility of value to all players could increase interest in PVP as both factions stand to gain a valuable resource and lets face it, wars are often about acquiring resources to maintain war efforts.
Sounds interesting.
In addition there could be a third computer-based faction regularly attacking both sides (make it the True Way for example, we know from "Skirmish" they're hanging around in that area) so neither side gets to hold it for an infinite amount of time.
Make the attacks more devastating the longer the area is held so it becomes impossible at some point to keep it under control.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 102
10-16-2011, 03:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_Strife
I agree that PVP has to mean something to be worthwhile, and as a casual visitor to the forums and PVP I know my opinion won't mean much to anyone, but the idea of moving territory is something that got me thinking about something I saw in STOked episode 100 when one of the Devs mentioned an event that could give it's victors the opportunity to use a Dilithium Cracking plant to earn higher yields on refinement.

What if the neutral zone in it's default position contained a "neutral faction Dilithium Cracking Plant" that neither faction could use, unless the border was pushed back and the plant fell into one factions control or the others.

It wouldn't be much but a facility of value to all players could increase interest in PVP as both factions stand to gain a valuable resource and lets face it, wars are often about acquiring resources to maintain war efforts.
This is a good starting point, but I'd hope a pvp objective based warzone would only be a gap filler towards a larger more persistant system, and I have a few reasons for that.

1. A warzone type pvp area that can be capped by either faction has a limitation if either faction is underpopulated, and then you have to add in buffs, and loopholes to boost the lower population faction, and eventually it leads to all sorts of fixes like population caps, respawn limits etc, this is evident in wow as the issues that began to crop up in wintergrasp began to really detract from the fun over the long term.

2. The pve component would be less important, and I think for any territory control to really be a viable endgame activity it has to unite pvp and pve. In the best systems, and they are rare in todays MMO landscape, the pve usually takes the form of mining, construction, auctioning and to a large extent the social/politics dynamics. Sto could add to that with things currently in it's bag of tricks, the doff system, diplomacy, dilithuim, anomalies, even the foundry...all of these could touch the concept in a unique way that no other sandbox style mmo could provide.

3. The lack of a fleet component, when it's faction against faction, then you loose the real concrete sense of teamwork and growth holding territory as a fleet would provide. Add in fleet starbases, and you've got a great place to call home, unique to your playstyle and an anchor into the gameworld. In eve 0.0 space your corp controls is quite literally your home, you mine, and farm inside it, you have passwords and guards, you patrol and protect it. There is a real sense of camaraderie that emerges. And before the go away eve peeps lose it here, I don't like eve, the combat is like watching paint dry, the skill system is restrictive, and there is no story. STO doesn't need to clone another game, it just needs to embrace that sandbox mentality.

I'm pretty sure I'm not alone on the idea, we all want some more immersion, but we need the tools to get to that point.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 103
10-16-2011, 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Startruck
This is a good starting point, but I'd hope a pvp objective based warzone would only be a gap filler towards a larger more persistant system, and I have a few reasons for that.

1. A warzone type pvp area that can be capped by either faction has a limitation if either faction is underpopulated, and then you have to add in buffs, and loopholes to boost the lower population faction, and eventually it leads to all sorts of fixes like population caps, respawn limits etc, this is evident in wow as the issues that began to crop up in wintergrasp began to really detract from the fun over the long term.

2. The pve component would be less important, and I think for any territory control to really be a viable endgame activity it has to unite pvp and pve. In the best systems, and they are rare in todays MMO landscape, the pve usually takes the form of mining, construction, auctioning and to a large extent the social/politics dynamics. Sto could add to that with things currently in it's bag of tricks, the doff system, diplomacy, dilithuim, anomalies, even the foundry...all of these could touch the concept in a unique way that no other sandbox style mmo could provide.

3. The lack of a fleet component, when it's faction against faction, then you loose the real concrete sense of teamwork and growth holding territory as a fleet would provide. Add in fleet starbases, and you've got a great place to call home, unique to your playstyle and an anchor into the gameworld. In eve 0.0 space your corp controls is quite literally your home, you mine, and farm inside it, you have passwords and guards, you patrol and protect it. There is a real sense of camaraderie that emerges. And before the go away eve peeps lose it here, I don't like eve, the combat is like watching paint dry, the skill system is restrictive, and there is no story. STO doesn't need to clone another game, it just needs to embrace that sandbox mentality.

I'm pretty sure I'm not alone on the idea, we all want some more immersion, but we need the tools to get to that point.
you probably had them convinced and on your side until you mentioned eve lol.

this would be awsome though... although id be happy enough with just a random map generator as a show of good faith for the pvp crowd, or bringing back that awsome assault map. thatd be a good starting point for capturing things in space.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 104
10-16-2011, 09:23 PM
Unfortunately you are mostly right, drawing comparisons to eve seems to make people freak out, even though it's pretty much the only long running sci fi mmo out there and focused on a sandbox style space empire game. If there were other sources to draw from I would, sometimes I think elements of sins of a solar empire could be neat, territory control sectors linked by specific travel corridors, and pve sectors having the same kind of influence line that diplomacy conquest does in that game to flip systems.

It's all pretty much a pipe dream thoug, I've yet to see a Dev engage and brainstorm with the community on the subject, although both Dstahl and Salami both mentioned they were interested in some day doing it in interviews.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 105
10-17-2011, 12:12 AM
What about drawing from Earth and Beyond?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 106
10-17-2011, 01:56 AM
I like the idea of Territory Control a lot, and I think it is something that works well with the IP and the story of Startrek Online.

That said, let us not forget that we are currently playing a very different "PvP" game. The current form of PvP is "match"-based. Equally sized teams fighting each other for points.
There are many PvP interested players that do not care for this form of PvP, but would care for a Territory Control system.

But, that said, for the people that like their Arenas and Capture & Holds, I think we also need some kind of Tournament and Ladder/leaderboard system. Like territory control, tournaments and leaderboards can provide long-term motivation for PvP and make each match mean more than the 10 to 60 minutes of excitement it provided.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 107
10-17-2011, 02:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by P_Sutherland
I've had loads of FvF games recently... been awhile since a FvK has popped.... so from my prespective... its been Feds vs Terrans... with the Terrans winning of course
Heh. Now to see if anyone else can spot the obvious problems the population disparity would have on a live PVP environment with territory control.

They introduce this system right now, before fixing the Klingon faction, and in three months Klingon territory will stretch all the way from Qonos to... well, Qonos.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 108
10-17-2011, 04:17 AM
Quote:
Heh. Now to see if anyone else can spot the obvious problems the population disparity would have on a live PVP environment with territory control.

They introduce this system right now, before fixing the Klingon faction, and in three months Klingon territory will stretch all the way from Qonos to... well, Qonos.
So no change to now?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 109
10-17-2011, 04:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermbot View Post
Heh. Now to see if anyone else can spot the obvious problems the population disparity would have on a live PVP environment with territory control.

They introduce this system right now, before fixing the Klingon faction, and in three months Klingon territory will stretch all the way from Qonos to... well, Qonos.
That would mean that the same percentage of players is interested in such a thing on both sides.
However it seems there are more PvE-only players on the Fed side than the KDF side.
So the good'ol population gap would not have the same impact it has on the sever percentage overall.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 110
10-17-2011, 07:37 AM
Like someone already said, why not start with a small planet on the edge of the neutral zone. Give it a pve persistent zone and an extra pvp persistent zone.

The pve zone may be a casual social zone for the RP'ers and PVE'ers, while there's a bonus pvp zone that the feds and klings fight over for additional quests/loot vendors/dilithium refineries/etc.

There's a 30 minute open war (or whatever the max # of participants is) that can be queued for. There's points in the map you need to secure, like refineries, troop landing points, etc. In the end, those who control the structures get to use them for 30 minutes. The PvE zone bonus mission givers would then be lit up and flagged for the faction that controls the buildings for the time being.

During the downtime, you'll still be able to "stop and redirect" incoming ore freighter NPCs, directing a portion of dilithium for yourself. Of course, there's no guarantee those freighters won't be under the protection of the other faction...

Doesn't have to be a neutral zone wide open environment; cryptic's already done away with the neutral zone to begin with. You'll see klingon players flying around all over rommie and fed space, and vice versa.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:48 AM.