Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
10-15-2011, 08:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase Quinnell
I personally always spent CStore points to get my dreadnaught and imperial class skin among other things(which ironically I never use), but I feel the option to get them for free should remain. I do like the fact you can trade dilithium for someone else's cpoints, similarly allowing you to get em for free, but it seems like an un-necessary step.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CmdrNightfire
No more antagonistic then you were, your statement implied everyone should spend money for T5s because you did. The point stands though, giving subscribers a worse experience then is available on live is a bad way to go.
Reread the highlighted portions and tell me where I implied everyone should pay cuz I did.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
10-15-2011, 08:39 PM
Can't wait to see all the "I didn't get the console for my already owned VA Refit Ship" posts once they retire the "vanilla" version VA ships for the "gotta have a reason to put a sticker price on em so here's a console replacement for their inherent ability" versions of the ships.

One of my Captains owns and flies an Intrepid - R . . . dreading what I might have to go through if the transition gets glitchy.

Really hate when Devs "fix" things that ain't broke.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
10-16-2011, 06:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CmdrNightfire
No more antagonistic then you were, your statement implied everyone should spend money for T5s because you did. The point stands though, giving subscribers a worse experience then is available on live is a bad way to go.
Apart from "we used to get it for free and now we actually have to put some effort in to getting it" how does taking away a VA ship make the experience worse?

Will you not be able to finish missions if you're in an RA ship? Will you not be competitive at PvP in an RA ship? To me you just seem to be upset that you'll actually have to put in some effort to get new gear. Go play another MMO, they make you (oh my stars and garters) WORK for the latest and greatest gear when you level. I know, it seems like a radical idea, but most games don't just hand you everything on a silver platter. If anything Cryptic is still easier than most because if you don't want to work for your stuff and grind out the dilithium you can just whip out your credit card and buy it directly.

Quote:
Anti Cryptic sign is a visible sign of displeasure with the current situation. Many people could say the same thing about Apologists, that their opinion doesnt matter because like good children they blindly find everything being done good and cant see faults.
Except I can see faults, when they first launched and didn't have the discount plate I thought that was a very bad idea. But by the time I was going to complain about it Cryptic had already said they had messed up and were going to fix that. I think the mission chaining is an inherently bad idea in its current implementation. While th DOFF system is good it needs some polishing.

However, while those are problems I feel needs to be addressed, if I was upset enough to put up a giant Anti-Cryptic avatar as my Avatar on the official Cryptic forums, I would just stop playing the game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
10-16-2011, 07:36 AM
Why stop playing if there is a chance to instigate change?
Change has already happened from feedback and campaigning, with determinatation and luck it will continue to happen.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
10-16-2011, 07:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
Why stop playing if there is a chance to instigate change?
Change has already happened from feedback and campaigning, with determinatation and luck it will continue to happen.
Exactly, if you believe in something you fight to make it better, not just accept the 'status quo". I've been playing STO since beta and though there have been things i wasnt pleased with and have been critical at times of cryptic I've been rather pleased with the whole experience and for a long time didnt feel the need to even post under the Administration of DStahl who did a great job at understanding what most players want.

But this F2P build is very much like a "New Game Experience" that destroyed SWG. That also destroys alot of what makes the game fun on Live, so thats good enough reason to be upset and try to fight to preserve the experience subscribers currently get. I know some people probaly dont care but alot of people dont like things being taken away from them when they pay for a service. Paying more for less is just foolish.

I will happily take down my anti cryptic sign when the new management stops trying to turn STO in a boring, lifeless grind fest that seems them wanting to milk money from people that Subscribers have to deal with along with the F2P players.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
10-16-2011, 09:13 AM
You're complaining that they're taking away a toy.

Do you complain that if they make a new alt you can't get teh Breen or Reman BOFF anymore? Or the Crossfire Tribble?

There is not meaningful benefit to the RA ships apart from the fact that they have an interesting ability. And now, those abilities will be transferable to other ships. If anything they've made things better for any characters you have which have already bought the VA ships, and made things marginally more difficult for any new characters you decide to create.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
10-16-2011, 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feor View Post
Apart from "we used to get it for free and now we actually have to put some effort in to getting it" how does taking away a VA ship make the experience worse?

Will you not be able to finish missions if you're in an RA ship? Will you not be competitive at PvP in an RA ship? To me you just seem to be upset that you'll actually have to put in some effort to get new gear. Go play another MMO, they make you (oh my stars and garters) WORK for the latest and greatest gear when you level. I know, it seems like a radical idea, but most games don't just hand you everything on a silver platter. If anything Cryptic is still easier than most because if you don't want to work for your stuff and grind out the dilithium you can just whip out your credit card and buy it directly.
I think thats the point ALexraptor was trying to drive home, he likes the ability to grind out 500 vet emblems to get it. With the New changes, you won't be ABLE to work for it, just Purchase it with CP.

Doing Dilithium trade means someone bought your stuff, so the ship still isn't free in that instance.

If Cryptic want to be fair, or at least stay the way they have it now, the ships should be available in Dilithium as well as purchaseable from the C-store. The idea is that purchase from the C-store was a account wide unlock, and buying it with emblems, or this case dilithium, would be a one time character purchase. so even if you wanted another on another toon, you had to grind up some more emblems, or dilithium in this case.

the free token was so you would get your FIRST VA ship on that character one time, much like the emblems did.

By making them "C-store ships only" it takes the "being able to work for it" out of the equation, because whether i buy it myself, or gather dilithium to trade for CP, the ship was still payed for with real money in either case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feor View Post
You're complaining that they're taking away a toy.

Do you complain that if they make a new alt you can't get teh Breen or Reman BOFF anymore? Or the Crossfire Tribble?

There is not meaningful benefit to the RA ships apart from the fact that they have an interesting ability. And now, those abilities will be transferable to other ships. If anything they've made things better for any characters you have which have already bought the VA ships, and made things marginally more difficult for any new characters you decide to create.
The Breen and Reman BOFFS were limited time items to begin with, Cryptic told us that WAAAAY in advance of the arcs that they are in. Thats different, the VA tokens were never to be a limited time resource that would go away, after a fashion.

And when I just look at what it is Cryptic is doing, moving 11 Ships from FREE to C-store, and NOT replacing them with anything, just leaving an empty hole in the matrix, that is kinda messed up. At least replace the VAs with FREE ones.

As far as the "They are T5.5s and optional", That's only for now, when the Level Cap gets raised, those ships will receive a buff of some sort to do VA1-10, course I'm sure we will have this argument again when it comes to FA level ships and their respective things.

-
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
10-16-2011, 11:11 AM
Quote:
Doing Dilithium trade means someone bought your stuff, so the ship still isn't free in that instance.

By making them "C-store ships only" it takes the "being able to work for it" out of the equation, because whether i buy it myself, or gather dilithium to trade for CP, the ship was still payed for with real money in either case.
Yes, but you didn't pay for it, so why do you care? I'm betting alot of the C-Store points that end up on the exchange won't even be ones that were bought, I bet alot of Gold members who already bought everything they want from the C-Store are going to be putting their stipend up there.

That's another thing, you can still get it free if you're a gold member, it's just a question of time. 1600 C-point? That's 4 months of stipend. Or know three gold member friends who don't have any use for their stipend or Dilithium? Trade them 1 Dilithium for their entire stipend. You have just "gound out" that VA ship, and all it took you was 30m of DOFF assignment.

And like I said before if you've been a lifer for more than 20 months (and at least two of my opponents in this argument are lifers, and one of them has stated he's played since launch) I will not accept the "but we're paying for it" card. You are not paying for anything. As soon as you hit 20 months as a lifer you are getting everything that gold players get for free.

Quote:
As far as the "They are T5.5s and optional", That's only for now, when the Level Cap gets raised, those ships will receive a buff of some sort to do VA1-10, course I'm sure we will have this argument again when it comes to FA level ships and their respective things.
And when they raise the level cap and introduce proper T6 ships THEN they should re-add the free VA ship token for gold players. The retrofit ships should at this point simply be made available to RA as C-Store ships. They're not VA ships, and they're no longer special enough to merit the higher level requirement to use them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
10-16-2011, 12:01 PM
I'm still not understanding why any Ship Tokens had to go at all.

First, they replaced the removed Tokens with Dilithium stipends for ranking up. Why? "Let's remove this established way of getting your new ship with a different way of getting your ship". Why bother?

Then, they added the Ship Tokens back at every rank for Gold Members and the early ranks for Silvers but had to remove the VA Token for Golds so Silvers couldn't abuse the system to get a free one, too. Again, why create problems for yourself by "fixing" a system that ain't broke.

Here's an idea, just leave all the Ship Tokens for all players . . . we don't need Dilithium Stipends if we just have a Token. You don't have to put in safegaurds against abuse by just leaving the Ship Token system in place as it already is.

Each day I'm liking this new econmy garbage less and less.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
10-17-2011, 07:19 PM
Exactly, why did any ship tokens have to be taken away?

And Feor, you seemed to miss my point. My point is that they clearly said we wouldn't lose anything in the transition...but here is something we are losing. And you are only kidding yourself if you think that the Retrofit ships don't make a difference over a non-retro RA ship.

If they don't make a difference, why are they for sale in the store?

And even if they don't "make a huge difference", they were given to us and now they aren't. That is taking something away, which is what my post was about.

Also, consider this. The Romulans are on the radar, supposedly coming next year if the schedule stays the same. While I won't be hurt much by a missing VA token now, having FED and KDF officers maxed out already...I would be missing it when the Rommies come around.

Also, I am not asking for everyone to get the token, only the payhing players. Why shouldn't I expect to put in less work for a ship if I am a subscriber.

Let's look at the facts, currently.

With Ore refinement being 8000 a day, how quickly can you farm for a ship? Even if you get the ore you need many days to refine it all.

Ships are the most important part of the game, and as a subscriber why shouldn't I get easier access them? If I am free to play, fine...make me work for it. That is what I expect if I don't want to pay to play. But I would like to think that my loyalty of subscription would be rewarded with something...

Silver players don't have to spend a dime to play, that means that someone with a gold subscription is not only paying for thier own access to the game but also for many of those silver players as well. Sure, many will buy points...but most won't. Most will never consider it. Shouldn't these people who are paying a sub be given more for their money? Why wouldn't you want more than a free player?

Ships up to the highest don't really even bother me. End game content and PvP require the highest ships in the game. If they are going to give us more end game content as they claim, then that means even more reason to have the best ships and gear.

Working for the gear, I have no problem with, but as I said already, ships are the most important part of being a captain in this game.

Look, I am not asking for something more than what I have already. I am only asking that they don't take away what we have already. What does that hurt?

If they want to remove the refine limit for gold players, I can deal with the token being gone. Getting ore isn't easy, currently, so I don't see why gold players are limited anyway.

Currently, it will be a grind to get ships and gear at the highest levels. I don't want a grind. I won't grind. That means I won't spend my money on this game. Sadly, many others won't either. If this is what they think makes up for end game content, it's unacceptable.

What reason does anyone have to subscribe the way things are now? That is what I am asking...because I am not seeing it. 400 points a month isn't $15 bucks...and sadly, it seems I need to spend much more than that to get what I need in game, so why would I want to sub on top of it?

I am not talking about new content either, I am talking about existing content.

Just don't take things away from us, Cryptic, that is all I am saying.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:49 AM.