Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
When the players were worried about F2P Hurting Star Trek Online we were told that nothing would change for subscribers so please don't spread "Doom & Gloom"

When we were worried about Dan Stahl leaving we were told that there will be no change in the way Star Trek Online will be operated so please don't spread "Doom & Gloom"

Since both of the above statement are false can we spread "Doom & Gloom" now?
Since what you have done in the last few weeks means that you were lying to us when the fist rumors of STO going F2P and you told us nothing will change.

I would like to believe you when you post answers to hard questions or questions about the changes or non-changes to STO, but by recent history I can't do that anymore.

Almost everyone is against any changes to STO for all subscribers, yet each build you surprise us with another change. Then you say you are "Just seeing how it is received, remember it is a test area" but the changes are not totally revoked.
This is what I think you guys are doing: You are putting these wholesale changes on to Tribble so when you give that tiny little piece back to the game you can try and sneak some other things in. You are taking a great risk with this game and you are treating the players that have stuck behind you for the last year & 9 months very very badly... and the worst part is that you don't see this as a problem.

You are killing this game......

and you wonder why it is all Doom & Gloom, because you have a forum that is saying that if things stay the same they are quitting and you say nothing. This will not go away ...

I'm begging you to put STO back the way is was for the subscribers that have stood by you. If you want to charge for those things, charge the Silver Players, not the Gold!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
10-23-2011, 08:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psytce View Post
When the players were worried about F2P Hurting Star Trek Online we were told that nothing would change for subscribers so please don't spread "Doom & Gloom"

When we were worried about Dan Stahl leaving we were told that there will be no change in the way Star Trek Online will be operated so please don't spread "Doom & Gloom"

Since both of the above statement are false can we spread "Doom & Gloom" now?
Since what you have done in the last few weeks means that you were lying to us when the fist rumors of STO going F2P and you told us nothing will change.

I would like to believe you when you post answers to hard questions or questions about the changes or non-changes to STO, but by recent history I can't do that anymore.

Almost everyone is against any changes to STO for all subscribers, yet each build you surprise us with another change. Then you say you are "Just seeing how it is received, remember it is a test area" but the changes are not totally revoked.
This is what I think you guys are doing: You are putting these wholesale changes on to Tribble so when you give that tiny little piece back to the game you can try and sneak some other things in. You are taking a great risk with this game and you are treating the players that have stuck behind you for the last year & 9 months very very badly... and the worst part is that you don't see this as a problem.

You are killing this game......

and you wonder why it is all Doom & Gloom, because you have a forum that is saying that if things stay the same they are quitting and you say nothing. This will not go away ...

I'm begging you to put STO back the way is was for the subscribers that have stood by you. If you want to charge for those things, charge the Silver Players, not the Gold!
None of this should come as a surprise. Cryptic has time and again told the player base one thing, and done another. Now i know i am gonna be told its not true, or its not fair, but it is. All anyone has to do, even the Cryptic diehard fans,is take a objective look at just about everything Cryptic has told the player base since Beta, and compare it to what actually has happened.

Examples would be"KDF" update with first 90 day patch, was suppose to finish out the story for Klingons. How about"Romulans" are on the way as a playable faction. My favorite is the many "PVP will be fixed in X patch". Anyone see a trend?

I have been hoping that Cryptic would finally give STO the just treatment it deserves with F2P release. If Tribble is any indication, they are on a Multi Year journey to get there.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
10-23-2011, 08:41 PM
5 year mission lol.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
10-23-2011, 09:37 PM
as much as i hate to admit it, yeah. They tend to lie a lot about things. Then when called on it they just say "oh well, just deal with it" Even stormshade pulled that card when the Whole LTS debacle started. After every thing they promised to lifers and either didnt accomplish or turned into a vet reward people felt lied to and like they deserved more to which Stormy said "you don't have to pay anymore and you should just be glad for even that" When as he complained about the lifers wanting more the Page about it STILL said More on the way.

Or the Whole no content Droughtonly to stop any and all content until AFTER F2P launches.... or for that matter that the game was even going to F2P, even after the leak.... Or how they weren't going to make it pay to win but now they're taking away the ability to earn ships in game, ships you used to get free for hitting a certain rank, and making them C-store purchses?

Its frustrating, to be a fan of something only to have the people who made it constantly lie to the fans as well as change it in ways that show it's just about the money.

And here i thought George Lucas made the Star wars franchise, not Star Trek Online.....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
10-23-2011, 09:42 PM
Oh, and i forgot that when they said they were going to stream line and simplify the Economy and instead made it much worse. Or how they were redoing the entire tutorial and all they did was add a new starting room based on class, or how they were... you know what, this list just keeps going and going so i'll just stop here....


No wonder Stahl Jumped ship, i'd leave too if all my hard work for the Fans of the game was being spit on.

Just stop the lies Cryptic..... just stop the lies....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
10-23-2011, 11:08 PM
Thank god they are finally changing things. Things they wanted to do from the start. I can't see what you are complaining about.

I don't see anything that has been changed exclusively for subscribers in a game-breaking way. All changes are changes of the game mechanics themselves, which do and should happen in any MMO. Read your terms of use.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
10-23-2011, 11:52 PM
Have you ever seen what happens when a business gets taken over by new management? Things change. Things the old management were happy with and didn't want to change get changed. In this case, a lot of the changes that they are making have actually been asked for by the playerbase (simplifying the economy is definitely one that has been asked for, as has been a skill revamp and splitting the ground and space skill trees). These are things that were mentioned by DStahl in Engineering Reports months ago, many even before the PW takeover was publicized.

Have the changes we asked for been implemented perfectly? Of course not. They have made some pretty big mistakes. Trying to get gold players to grind for ships each promotion was definitely a huge mistake, and they (mostly) fixed that. You do have to keep in mind that we're talking about a test server with a new EP, so yeah, there's going to be some teeth cutting going on. Who knows? Once the dust settles and this releases to Holodeck, you might actually like it. Or, you might hate it. The point is that it's not done yet. It might be prudent to save the doom and gloom until it's actually about to go to Holodeck. If it gets to that point, it's still awful, and they want to push it to live despite the players screaming not to, then you'd have every right to complain. We're not there yet, though. We've got weeks, maybe more than a month I'd wager before this is ready to go live.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
10-23-2011, 11:53 PM
Ya know guys, Cryptic has made soem claims that have proven to be a little let..in some cases a LOT less then expected (I play KDF.. boy do I know)

BUT.. and this is a BIG BUT.. we are not even HALF way through the F2P beta and theres is still a lot of changes yet to be made, and a few things may be out right dropped as a bad idea. The Crafting changes have proven to be very unpopular and may need to change.. Several good suggestions have been made through all the vitrol. opefully one or two of them will be implemented.

PLEASE be aware that one of the things they do in this sort of playtest/beta is to throw an exaggerrated version out in front of the "playtest" audience (ie: us!) just to see what everyones reaction will be.

We still have a long way to go yet. the KDF faction must be GTG before F2P launch. The STF missions need to be balanced with the understanding that at this point most of us are indeed expert players, or at the evry minimum very experienced players and what we find simply "hard" or " difficult" may have F2P new to the game players yanking thier hair out and talking to themselves loudly in public and leaving thier freinds and family to wonder if they should call the guys in the white coats.

I am enjoying myself during this play test, and when we get to the end of it I will post an evaluation of what will still need to be worked on, what needs to be dropped, and what could possibly be added to enhance game play. In the mean time I post bug reports in game when I find something that not apparently working right and remeber that Fixit patch come out on Tuesdays if its a game stopper, with additional features patches on Thusday, or friday if its not ready yet.

While I am definatly NOT one of cryptic biggest fans and have been very harshly critical of them in the past (and will be again in the future). I will give credit where credit is due. They're throwing a lot of stuff at us with more to come and the only way to find out if it works.. really works, in game is for us to get our grubby little honds on it and beat on it untill it breaks.. or doesn't break.

The current ecnomic model needs a lot more tweaking before its ready for prime time and once it goes live they need to stand ready to tweak it some more. No matter how much we do with it here on Tribble the real acid test is when it goes live. Honestly, I dont think F2P is going to really be ready before January no matter what Cryptic wants to aim for.. The Goal maybe early December but if STO 2.0 F2P is not ready by then, then its not ready.

And if its not ready I will certainly say so LOUDLY. I may not like everything in the final build before F2P launch, but whats more important is
"Are the game killer bugs squashed"
,"Have the new system integrated well and are they internally consistant and exploit free?"
"Is there sufficient Content for the KDF faction to be on par with the federation play experience"
(on par, not equal, just comprable, do KDF players have as much that they can do)
"Is the economic model easy to understand, internally consistant and not vulnerable to exploitive inflation?"
"Is the crafting system workable and balanced within the greater game"
"Is the skill system working as intended and not giving excessive advantage to any particular class or build?"
"Are the ships balanced and workable within thier tiers?"

And all of what happens now is a set up for the future..
Persistant territorial PvP (ie: the Federation Klingon war!!!!)
Addition of new playable Factions (The Romulans, The Cardassian, The Fouders, The Terran Empire!!!"????)
New featured episode.. (you do realize that at this point they may very well have several dozen ready to go but are waiting on F2P launch before sliding them on us.. which will give them a bit of breating room after f2P launch to work on other dearly wanted features and content.

Its only week 3.. of a two to three MONTH testing period..

SO hang on to your socks.. we are likely through the roughest part allready.. tweaking and balancing right now. We should be seeing some other actuall CONTENT fairly soon. I am just itching to see what they roll out as the new KDF tutorial and mission progression and additions (GAwd I hope KDF gets a couple sector blocks more. We could really use them.. after all the new content has to happen somewhere! and considering the situation vis a vis KDF Marauding and Fed diplomacy the further away from fed spave KDF exploration zones are the happier I will be.. Farm some where else ya lazy pickers!

SO far, while there are issues none of them are a s bad as they could be.. change is happening but they dont have unlimited staff and its simply not feasable for them to pop out a patch and update every day. Not only is several game system undergoing change but the game is actually getting BIGGER! Much bigger... much much bigger.

I really hope they get in there and do something with the captains table... place is kinda wasted code at the moment.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
10-24-2011, 01:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faulgor View Post
Thank god they are finally changing things. Things they wanted to do from the start. I can't see what you are complaining about.

I don't see anything that has been changed exclusively for subscribers in a game-breaking way. All changes are changes of the game mechanics themselves, which do and should happen in any MMO. Read your terms of use.
Stuff taken away from Subscribers:
The 2 T-3 ships being put into the C-Store (Excelsior & Nebula)
1 Free VA Refit
Delta Flyer Mission, the one so you can get the Delta Flyer after doing 10 missions.

These are items in the game now that are FREE to subscribers that will only be in the C-Store when it goes F2P.

We were told we wouldn't lose any content, the Delta Flyer mission is content and a way to get the Delta Flyer for Free.

I don't see why they are doing all of this. When they made Champions F2P there was NO CHANGE in anything for the subscribers. One day it was a subscription Game, the next it was F2P. There were no items that they were getting for free before the switchover that when into the C-Store, But we are having at least 5 items going into the C-Store right off that bat.

If this isn't taking something away then you & I have a different meaning of taking away.....

I love this game and all it looks like to me is that Cryptic wants to have it's subscribers up in arms because each week we talk about how we were told nothing would change. What they are doing is making a large change that they know will get alot of pushback from us, that is so when they give a little of is back they get what they wanted in the first place. Case in point , buying of your ship when promoted. They had all ships had to be bought, then they gave back most, but kept the VA ships out of what they gave back which is what they probably wanted in the first place......

Bottom Line is that the only thing that should change for the subscribers is the conversion to the new currency, NOTHING ELSE SHOULD CHANGE!
If anything else is changed then we have been lied to once again.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
10-24-2011, 03:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psytce View Post
Stuff taken away from Subscribers:
The 2 T-3 ships being put into the C-Store (Excelsior & Nebula)
1 Free VA Refit
Delta Flyer Mission, the one so you can get the Delta Flyer after doing 10 missions.

These are items in the game now that are FREE to subscribers that will only be in the C-Store when it goes F2P.

We were told we wouldn't lose any content, the Delta Flyer mission is content and a way to get the Delta Flyer for Free.
The big problem I see with this sort of view point (as well as many others expressing similar view points) is that Free To Play does not equal Free To Run. Servers cost $$$. Data Center space costs $$$. Network connectivity costs $$$. IT support costs $$$. Development costs $$$. And, in the case of this game, licensing costs $$$.

The fact that things that used to be free under a subscription model are now going to cost $$$ under a free to play model shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. And yet, some seem to think that free to play is a one way street. Generation Entitlement I guess *shrug*. The ownership changed, and the business model changed... so guess what, part of things in the game changed too. Some proclaim this isn't "fair", but it's life. You can adapt and roll with the changes, or chose not to and be miserable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by psytce View Post
If this isn't taking something away then you & I have a different meaning of taking away.....
Really, that's the basis of being all worked up, 2 additional ships, a shuttle, and a free token? If you're running as a free to play account, that's what, maybe $40 of C-Store points in your example? Which would be a little under 3 months of a subscription fee under the old system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psytce View Post
Bottom Line is that the only thing that should change for the subscribers is the conversion to the new currency, NOTHING ELSE SHOULD CHANGE!
If anything else is changed then we have been lied to once again.
Yes, and society should have chased that trouble making Henry Ford out of town and off the continent. Along with Thomas Edison and Alexander Graham Bell. CHANGE IS BAD! ::
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