Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Birds of Prey Idea
10-26-2011, 07:30 PM
Ok because all of the bird of preys are so similar all allowing you to have 4 totally customized bridge office slots. All that changes is their rank and the number of weapons you can have. Since that is the case I think you should be able to pick from all the BoP parts from all levels to completely customize your BoP. You could stagger the hull points. If you decided to stick with the Heg'tah then you would have 34,000 HP, if you stayed with mostly Ki'tang parts then you would have 33,000 HP, Norgh 32,000 HP, Qul Dun and B'Rel 31,000 HP.

Secondly maybe someone can help me with this. But from the episodes of TNG that I remember with great detail, the BoPs never lowered their wings so drastically to attack. In fact during the episode when the Klingon Civil War was going to protest Gowron's appointment, I specifically remember that none of the 3 BoPs ever lowered their wings at all to attack. So why is it that in the game the animation has then going from 15 deg above horizontal down to like 60 deg below horizontal? It seems way to drastic.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
10-26-2011, 07:33 PM
I like this idea, I really do.

And I'd like to have an ability to chose if i wanted my wings to move, to stay down, or to stay up, while in combat.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
10-26-2011, 07:35 PM
Yea one of my fleet mates agrees. Out of red alert they should be all the way up. But in red alert we should be able to choose which position they are in.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
10-27-2011, 12:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RamblinWreck View Post
Ok because all of the bird of preys are so similar all allowing you to have 4 totally customized bridge office slots. All that changes is their rank and the number of weapons you can have. Since that is the case I think you should be able to pick from all the BoP parts from all levels to completely customize your BoP. You could stagger the hull points. If you decided to stick with the Heg'tah then you would have 34,000 HP, if you stayed with mostly Ki'tang parts then you would have 33,000 HP, Norgh 32,000 HP, Qul Dun and B'Rel 31,000 HP.
Good idea for customuzation but why would you peanlize people for not liking the ugly things we fly at T5?
A skin in this game is supposed to be just that.
If it affected them in a positive way as well, like -hull equals +turnrate I think I'd be okay with it.
But even then I don't think current game mechanics would allow this since skins don't affect the actual ship underneath.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RamblinWreck View Post
Secondly maybe someone can help me with this. But from the episodes of TNG that I remember with great detail, the BoPs never lowered their wings so drastically to attack. In fact during the episode when the Klingon Civil War was going to protest Gowron's appointment, I specifically remember that none of the 3 BoPs ever lowered their wings at all to attack. So why is it that in the game the animation has then going from 15 deg above horizontal down to like 60 deg below horizontal? It seems way to drastic.
The reason for that is a bit odd.
In early TNG they had no Vor'cha model and getting the K't'inga model out and refurbishing it was too much hassle.
As a result we got the "K'vort class battlecruiser" as it was called in one episode of TNG.
And even though that was "only" a parallel timeline episode ("Yesterday's Enterprise") the ships appeared in that config in several episodes (like in the Klingon Civil War episodes "Redemption" pt 1 &2

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/9...1414h49m29.png

or "The Defector)

http://www.suricatafx.com/?p=274

and there was an IKS Koraga shown on a display in DS9 that was called "K'v'ort class".

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__...ga_display.jpg

They reused the BoP model but scaled it up to roughly 350 meters length.
Those ships had thei wings horizontal during attack
Star Trek rationale: probably because at that scale moving them would have been too much.
Real World explanation: the motor inside the model used to move the wings was actually broken.

The difference to various glitches that appear in other episodes the fact that they employed a new class name and put it into the battlecruiser category (and for the Klingon civil War episodes even invented a totally new torpedo special effect)

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/805...1414h50m03.png
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/6...1414h50m16.png
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/159...1414h50m28.png

shows that this was intentional.
Not to mention that relative to the size of the torpedo tube the torpedo seems rather tiny indicating a much larger ship.
So the K'vort "BoP" would actually fit into the battle cruiser category in this game, with wings horizontal.
The problem would only be that due to the limited quality of the old TNG special effects we could not see details on the ships like windows.
However in STO we could easily see them.
As a consequence they'd need to make a new ship and use the B'rel as a basis but add details like rowns of windows and other details like escape pods to indicate it's a ship of a totally different scale.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
10-27-2011, 02:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastor_Forthright View Post
I like this idea, I really do.

And I'd like to have an ability to chose if i wanted my wings to move, to stay down, or to stay up, while in combat.
I want my BoP to flap it's wings like a real bird!!!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
10-27-2011, 08:02 PM
In the two top links both sets of BoPs were in attack mode with their wings flat. Thus proving that the drastic drop we see on the Holodeck is too drastic. Remove the drop or give us the option to put our wings where we want them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
10-28-2011, 03:59 AM
I like the Idea of interchangeble skin parts though all tiers for BoPs (and for Raptors it would work fine, too), that was suggestet a lot in the first months of the game but we never got a respone and VERY ugly alt-skins instead...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
The reason for that is a bit odd.
In early TNG they had no Vor'cha model and getting the K't'inga model out and refurbishing it was too much hassle.
As a result we got the "K'vort class battlecruiser" as it was called in one episode of TNG.
And even though that was "only" a parallel timeline episode ("Yesterday's Enterprise") the ships appeared in that config in several episodes (like in the Klingon Civil War episodes "Redemption" pt 1 &2
As far as I know the main reasons for the wings staying up is simply that the model was broken and the wings couldnt move any more.

On a funny side note: the only time the we saw a ship that was named "B'rel", wich is consideret to be the "smaler" BoP, it was stock footage from Yesterdays Enterprise, wich is the only time we actually saw K'Vorts (and not only on a display)... wich makes them exactly the same size (both the large-350 meter variant).


Quote:
or "The Defector)

http://www.suricatafx.com/?p=274
That link is pure awsomeness. Thanks a lot for that, will become very usefull the next time when somebody tries to decanonize large scaled BoPs..
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
10-28-2011, 07:22 AM
[quote=FirstAngelus;3834747]I like the Idea of interchangeble skin parts though all tiers for BoPs (and for Raptors it would work fine, too), that was suggestet a lot in the first months of the game but we never got a respone and VERY ugly alt-skins instead...

Yeah, only thing we got was even uglier skins IMO.
The Haj (gesundheit!) looks more like a grasshopper than a BoP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstAngelus View Post
As far as I know the main reasons for the wings staying up is simply that the model was broken and the wings couldnt move any more.
Thank you my friend, but I actually said that in my post a bit further down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstAngelus View Post
On a funny side note: the only time the we saw a ship that was named "B'rel", wich is consideret to be the "smaler" BoP, it was stock footage from Yesterdays Enterprise, wich is the only time we actually saw K'Vorts (and not only on a display)... wich makes them exactly the same size (both the large-350 meter variant).
Tha's right and it confuses some folks.
There is of course no actual "official" explanation for this error.
However I've got my own personal theory:
The Ferengi in "Rascals" say capturing the Enterprise was worth the investment into outdated ships.
We also know from "Generations" for example that the Klingons phase out old ship designs (and possibly sell them like they sold their D7s to the Romulans?).
But we also know those ships look very much like newer models (simply because they use the same miniature).
So my theory is that the B'rel type from "Rascals" is actually the predecessor to the K'vort design we know is still in active KDF service in the Dominion War era.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstAngelus View Post
That link is pure awsomeness. Thanks a lot for that, will become very usefull the next time when somebody tries to decanonize large scaled BoPs..
My pleasure even though ironically the purpose of the article is to disprove one BoP incarnation: the 700 meter monstrousity that for example continutes to live on on sites like ditl.org.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
10-28-2011, 08:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
Yeah, only thing we got was even uglier skins IMO.
The Haj (gesundheit!) looks more like a grasshopper than a BoP.
Thats why I said very ugly alt skins.
There was not ONE good part addet... and the worst thing (wich I keep repeating like an insane person) is that with that the original Hegh'ta model (wich I have grown to like very much) was changed with the new parts for the much worst....

Quote:
Thank you my friend, but I actually said that in my post a bit further down.
Sorry kind of missed that...

Quote:
Tha's right and it confuses some folks.
There is of course no actual "official" explanation for this error.
However I've got my own personal theory:
The Ferengi in "Rascals" say capturing the Enterprise was worth the investment into outdated ships.
We also know from "Generations" for example that the Klingons phase out old ship designs (and possibly sell them like they sold their D7s to the Romulans?).
But we also know those ships look very much like newer models (simply because they use the same miniature).
So my theory is that the B'rel type from "Rascals" is actually the predecessor to the K'vort design we know is still in active KDF service in the Dominion War era.
I wouldnt consider it a error at all, at least not in canon since its the ONLY mentioning of the "B'rel" class.
I thing in canon the B'rel is simply an earlier version of the K'vort... like you said... and the smal BoP variants are named diffrent.
The Duras-sister BoPs designation was "d12", we saw the duras sister with a prety small BoP (compaed to a runabout) in an early ds9 episode.
And Klingons selling thier datet ships seems to be a common practise... not that often in canon (but as rascals prooves it happens here too), but in many non-canon sources too...

My persoanl theorie about why the BoPs in DS9 seem all to be "small" varients is that, in most cases, we see them in fleets. May be the K'vort sized ship is simply build to opperate alone or in small groups while the "small" one is designed for fleet operation and scout missions.

Quote:
My pleasure even though ironically the purpose of the article is to disprove one BoP incarnation: the 700 meter monstrousity that for example continutes to live on on sites like ditl.org.
I was never a believer of the 700 meter variant, but the 350 varient seems prety right to me as "large scaled", it is, for sure bigger then the BoP in Generations and most of the ds9 appearences.... or for all that matters... the one from ST III and IV (that might not have kept the same size for 2 szenes in a row, but in all varients it was smaler)
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