Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 471
10-31-2011, 08:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esquire View Post
This indeed may be what it takes at this point to get the lesson across. It was what it took for SOE. Players took off for greener pastures, IP holder took off the same way, and the final conclusion of closure.

I now believe Cryptic knows exactly what they are doing but has little choice in the matter. Jack Emmert is not new or dumber than a box of rocks. He seen this happen before. He made fun of the original NGE with STO's April fools joke of "Star Trek Babies, Online". He knows all to well what will be the eventual outcome of such as this. At this point, I doubt he has the choice to even make a choice other than pull a Dstahl and just make sure his name is not connected.

PWI will learn the same way that SOE learned it would appear. Sad day(s) for Star Wars Galaxies and Star Trek Online, but the lesson will come, none-the-less. The IP will not be enough to suffer this thru. It wasn't for Galaxies and it wont be here, either.
I have evidence to suppose that it is not necessarily PWI telling Cryptic "do it exactly like this" but rather Crytpic's interpretation of PWI's analysis of how thier MMO's work, despite having done a wildly successful CO f2p conversion. I have, along with other pvp'ers have written PWI about Cryptic's abuse of the pvp gameplay system, despite Cryptic's insistence that PWI has told them to give a little more focus to pvp. The reply is always along the line of "Cryptic is running their own game by their own decisions. We only provide advice."

So there's some major disconnect somewhere.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 472
10-31-2011, 08:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by genxcraig View Post
I have evidence to suppose that it is not necessarily PWI telling Cryptic "do it exactly like this" but rather Crytpic's interpretation of PWI's analysis of how thier MMO's work, despite having done a wildly successful CO f2p conversion. I have, along with other pvp'ers have written PWI about Cryptic's abuse of the pvp gameplay system, despite Cryptic's insistence that PWI has told them to give a little more focus to pvp. The reply is always along the line of "Cryptic is running their own game by their own decisions. We only provide advice."

So there's some major disconnect somewhere.
This is a new one on me. For the life of me, I can not figure out why some1 as experienced with MMOs as Jackalope would even think about such as this much less leaving PVP in the state it is in. But evidense is evidense. If this is something you can pm, please do or I can pm you with an email addy and/or my vent server info. I am interested as I took interest in the original NGE (was an affected party) and it appears I'm just as interested over this 1 also.

As far as PVP goes, I wouldn't even venture to Q up with my tribble excel with the new console. It is about as OP as 1 could get, I'd imagine. Almost "alpha" as in way back when I unlocked my jedi. I now run with max weapon power and 80+ shield power. Power was the only thing holding that boat back before and it certainly is less of a problem now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 473
10-31-2011, 08:25 PM
No, I haven't read this entire thread but I have read a few of StormShade's posts in this thread after reading the article over at Starbase UGC. I've got to say and I've been firm on this through out the life of this game to date. I do not buyy per character content at all (beyond the Aenar and a couple of skill point bonuses). Things like the BO and Ships slots are a perfect example of what I mean. Any content you release on this new model, stipend or not as I'm a lifer, will not be purchased by me! I have spent quite a bit of cash in the C-Store but this new system will put an end to that. PWI/Cryptic really need to seriously reconsider doing this as it will hurt your revenue much more than you seem to realize.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 474
10-31-2011, 08:27 PM
Ships will remain account unlock, not character unlock. That is the plan, and although plans do change, I find it very unlikely ships will change to character unlock. There was a time we considered making ships character unlocked. When we talked about it, we also considered making the ships less expensive to compensate. But we ultimately decided it was best to leave ships account unlocked.

However, we want to make as many c-store items as possible to be character unlocked. The reason is simple. We want people to be able to give/them to other players. Thatís good for everybody. This is not possible as an account unlock because it becomes too exploitable (I buy the item, trade it, re-claim it, repeat). Ships make much more sense to be account unlock since (besides the fact we actually donít currently have technology to trade ships) it is such a major investment, and such a game/balance changer that we want you to be able to make a new character, and then have access to all those ships you bought. Things like tribbles or pets are really not game/balance changers. They are fun, and make a lot of sense to let people trade/gift. Every C-store item was evaluated and was made as an account or character unlock on an individual basis based on various consideration.

So, some items will become character unlocked. For instance, I believe all Bridge Officers will work this way. Catian Boffs were released like this, and they work well. It allows players to trade/gift them. Other items will remain account unlock where it makes sense.

Please remember, if you earned or purchased one of these items - like the Fluidic tribble from playing on the test server, or the shuttle pet from a pre-order - it will remain yours. It will be bound to you, account unlocked, untradeable, and you can re-claim it if you discard it. Only new purchases will follow the new model. Going forward, we may award new items (say for playing on tribble, veterans rewards or for other reason) as account unlock items, but then sell them in the C-store, to players who did not earn them, as character unlock items.

BTW, if you bought the T5 excelsior, you should be able to continue to claim the both the T5 and T3 variant. Only going forward will they be sold separately (BTW, the T5 Excelsior is getting reverted on Tribble to the way it is on holodeck now. You may have to discard your tribble T5 Excelsior and reclaim it to fix it. The T3 Excelsior is just plain getting better. This change to the T5 Excelsior is not in yet, but it's on its way). In fact, any item that changed from an account unlock to a character unlock, or any purchase that gave you something in the past that it no longer gives you (like the T5/T3 Excelsior and Nebula bundles) will be honored, and was always planned to be honored, and nothing less was ever implied.

Please remember that Tribble is a test server where we are not only shaking out bug, but experimenting with different models and values. If you find something quirky, or have a question about something like this, or just plain donít like something, we very much look forward to hearing from you. But please remember to be respectful, and not jump to conclusions. So much is still in flux, and there is still a lot of work to do, and we very much need your help. But speculations just start rumors and it becomes very hard to find the real issues so we can resolve them, or get you the right information.



Best Regards
-Captain Geko
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 475
10-31-2011, 08:31 PM
haha, pretty funny how Geko just pulled the rug out from all the excelsior posters. Wasn't feedback being ignored again? lololol

Thanks for the information Geko.



---------------------------------------------------------------



p.s. my response when questioned on this post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by V-Mink
'Pulled the rug out' from under people who had legitimate complaints? Nynik, I realize that you are fighting a rather one-sided battle on these forums, but, really. Had someone posted this a week ago, there'd have been considerably less vitriol.
For what its worth, I certainly don't think people giving voice to their concerns is a bad thing by any means, but just because we didn't get personalised dev replies or blogs on each change brought to the server does not give a free pass for some people to outright conclude things are X, Y or Z without the full picture and then use that as evidence in ridiculing the opinion of others or engaging in clear Cryptic bashing for the sake of it.

My comment on 'pulling the rug out' was aimed squarely at those posters who have been citing exuberantly that the Excelsior changes were the incontestable proof of Cryptic's policy in steamrolling the community.

Given, we have all, repeatedly been forewarned about the nature of this testing environment and that changes made don't necessarily (by virtue of being brought to us for testing) reflect the end product - its high time we all step back and gain some perspective on things. Trying to create an adversarial relationship with the developers without basing it on solid information is the mark of ignorance in my opinion, and if there is any fight you think I am fighting on these forums, it is to combat one-sided arguments based on flawed assumptions. Its not worth my time, but if it even helps one person question the issue rather than accept the status quo - then its time well spent.

Lets criticize 'them' for things we know are fact please, like their disastrous implementation of the recent shift in communication policy, but don't treat Tribble like the live server or even redshirt. Changes are pushed to us to hammer out, but there is no guarantee that changes represent the final product or goal, unlike how tribble has traditionally been. There would be less 'vitriol', as you put it, if we could all keep that in mind a little more and not rely on being repeatedly told its NOT FINAL.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 476
10-31-2011, 08:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainGeko
Ships will remain account unlock, not character unlock. That is the plan, and although plans do change, I find it very unlikely ships will change to character unlock. There was a time we considered making ships character unlocked. When we talked about it, we also considered making the ships less expensive to compensate. But we ultimately decided it was best to leave ships account unlocked.

However, we want to make as many c-store items as possible to be character unlocked. The reason is simple. We want people to be able to give/them to other players. Thatís good for everybody. This is not possible as an account unlock because it becomes too exploitable (I buy the item, trade it, re-claim it, repeat). Ships make much more sense to be account unlock since (besides the fact we actually donít currently have technology to trade ships) it is such a major investment, and such a game/balance changer that we want you to be able to make a new character, and then have access to all those ships you bought. Things like tribbles or pets are really not game/balance changers. They are fun, and make a lot of sense to let people trade/gift. Every C-store item was evaluated and was made as an account or character unlock on an individual basis based on various consideration.

So, some items will become character unlocked. For instance, I believe all Bridge Officers will work this way. Catian Boffs were released like this, and they work well. It allows players to trade/gift them. Other items will remain account unlock where it makes sense.

Please remember, if you earned or purchased one of these items - like the Fluidic tribble from playing on the test server, or the shuttle pet from a pre-order - it will remain yours. It will be bound to you, account unlocked, untradeable, and you can re-claim it if you discard it. Only new purchases will follow the new model. Going forward, we may award new items (say for playing on tribble, veterans rewards or for other reason) as account unlock items, but then sell them in the C-store, to players who did not earn them, as character unlock items.

BTW, if you bought the T5 excelsior, you should be able to continue to claim the both the T5 and T3 variant. Only going forward will they be sold separately (BTW, the T5 Excelsior is getting reverted on Tribble to the way it is on holodeck now. You may have to discard your tribble T5 Excelsior and reclaim it to fix it. The T3 Excelsior is just plain getting better. This change to the T5 Excelsior is not in yet, but it's on its way). In fact, any item that changed from an account unlock to a character unlock, or any purchase that gave you something in the past that it no longer gives you (like the T5/T3 Excelsior and Nebula bundles) will be honored, and was always planned to be honored, and nothing less was ever implied.

Please remember that Tribble is a test server where we are not only shaking out bug, but experimenting with different models and values. If you find something quirky, or have a question about something like this, or just plain donít like something, we very much look forward to hearing from you. But please remember to be respectful, and not jump to conclusions. So much is still in flux, and there is still a lot of work to do, and we very much need your help. But speculations just start rumors and it becomes very hard to find the real issues so we can resolve them, or get you the right information.



Best Regards
-Captain Geko
I like posts like this one. Although I never trusted those lizard people...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 477
10-31-2011, 08:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainGeko
However, we want to make as many c-store items as possible to be character unlocked. The reason is simple. We want people to be able to give/them to other players. Thatís good for everybody.
If this is truely the reason, and the ONLY reason to make them character-unlockable, then I would agree it is a good one.

But that reason alone does not mean you shouldn't have an account-wide untradable option available for such items. Give your customers Choices. Customers love Choices.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 478
10-31-2011, 08:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormShade

We're drastically changing the business plan for STO, and that means that until things go to Holodeck, everything is subject to change.

That is all fine and dandy but leave the GOLD players out of that business model and bullcrap greed driven cash grabs you are making.

GOLD players should see no change from what they have had for nearly 2 years.Only Silver players should be seeing any of these changes effecting them and them alone.

No other MMO that has gone free to play and I mean NO OTHER has seen any changes to their paying members.They play and go on as they always have and only the free players get any kinds of effects from the transition.

This is how it should be.

But no...you decide to double dip and nickel and dime your paying members at every damn turn and only thing you are accomplishing is to tick off your long time supporters and players.

My question is how can you as a company manage to seamlessly release Champions Online as free to play with a very fair and liked matrix.Gold players do not get effected and silvers have to pay for stuff if they want it.

Yet you as the same company manage to release one of the worst free to play matrix's I have ever seen in any free to play game with STO.Your gold members are being effected way to much by it when they should be seeing little to no change from what they have had.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 479
10-31-2011, 08:37 PM
Thank you Geko.

Matt
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 480
10-31-2011, 08:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainGeko
BTW, if you bought the T5 excelsior, you should be able to continue to claim the both the T5 and T3 variant. Only going forward will they be sold separately (BTW, the T5 Excelsior is getting reverted on Tribble to the way it is on holodeck now. You may have to discard your tribble T5 Excelsior and reclaim it to fix it. The T3 Excelsior is just plain getting better. This change to the T5 Excelsior is not in yet, but it's on its way). In fact, any item that changed from an account unlock to a character unlock, or any purchase that gave you something in the past that it no longer gives you (like the T5/T3 Excelsior and Nebula bundles) will be honored, and was always planned to be honored, and nothing less was ever implied.
Someone saying this a week or so ago when the patch hit would have saved the community a lot of angsting and virtriol; Regardless, thank you for the clarification. Though, I will point out that "it never being implied" falls a bit short; the patch notes explictly said the Excelsior was being changed (with old ones recieving the new, gimped console), and said nothing about Grandfathering in old ones.

Also, a note; Those of us who imported a holodeck character cannot dismiss and reclaim our C-Store unlocks. And any C-Store products bought (and thus, reclaimable), are the "new" items and rules. So there's no way to test that method.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainGeko
Please remember that Tribble is a test server where we are not only shaking out bug, but experimenting with different models and values. If you find something quirky, or have a question about something like this, or just plain donít like something, we very much look forward to hearing from you. But please remember to be respectful, and not jump to conclusions. So much is still in flux, and there is still a lot of work to do, and we very much need your help. But speculations just start rumors and it becomes very hard to find the real issues so we can resolve them, or get you the right information.
With respect, the speculations regarding the Excelsior and other ships have become so heated because it's been a week since they were patched onto Tribble, and there's been no comment at all from Cryptic until now.

When something hits the test server, we assume it's "as intended", until told otherwise. If we're silent, and assume it'll hopefully maybe change/fix itself, we kind of know that won't be the case.
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