Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 171
11-03-2011, 05:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitan1701 View Post
That`s not possible, so Rehpic must have misspoken. There could be only one of two cases - either sellers are specifing a minimum price or buyers are specifing a maximum price. The example you and he has given is based on a minimum price for sellers. I like that.
It depends how it tried to match up. I would guess the deal would always be best for the person placing the order second (i.e. the person that actually triggers the exchange).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 172
11-03-2011, 06:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehpic
When you entered your offer to buy @50DL, there were no sell offers at that price and there were many buy offers at higher prices, which will be matched before yours. When your friend entered his sell offer @50DL, it was matched with the highest buy order that was greater than or equal to his offered sell price, which in this case was 250DL.

It may be true that when he entered his sell offer the best buy offer visible to him was 350DL, but by the time his offer arrived at the server someone else had already sold to the guy offering 350, and the next highest buy offer was 250. Keep in mind that because the actual transactions are processed on the server, there may be a few seconds of delay between updates of available offers on the server and when those updates make it to your client.

When you enter a buy offer, the price you specify is a maximum. You will pay that amount of dilithium or less. For sell offers, the price is a minimum. You will sell at the price you offer, or higher. This means that whether you are buying or selling, you always get the the price you specify or a price that is better for you.
Thanks for clarifying. New question. Two players put offers to buy 100CP @ 500DL. A third player offers to sell 100CP @ 500DL. How do you calculate who gets the 100CP? Is it FIFO/LIFO, shared randomly between the two, some other method, etc?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 173
11-03-2011, 06:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Revo
my initial reaction is 500 might be too high of an upper limit.

i understand it needs to be used a lot for us to gather what is the right balance but it sounds higher than it needs to be. off the top of my head i would say 250 is better and maybe even have 25 as the lower limit.
Why is it to high? Just because you might think CP aren't worth more than 250 per point doesn't mean I do. Maybe I think that 500 isn't high enough.

I understand the need of a high limit just so people don't put 1CP for 1 million RD, I get that. But who are you to say that CP aren't worth 500 RD per point?

Something is worth exactly what a person is willing to pay for it. If you won't pay or won't charge more than 250 per point, that is your choice, that doesn't we all should be dictated to what you think is fair.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 174
11-03-2011, 07:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Revo
sorry maybe im just being stupid or missing something but while i get the first part, i dont get how the sell offers can get higher if the buying offer also tries to get you the best offer.

so player A wants to buy 1 c-point for 300 dilithium. Player B is selling at 200 dilithium. Player A get to buy at 200 (as thats the lowest) and gets 100 dilithium back.

Player C sells c-points and lists 300 as his minimum. Player D offers 200 and therefore does not match it. Player E lists 400 and wins them. so going back to the first part of it, player E should get the c-point at the price listed at 300 and gets his 100 dilithium back. so how do sellers ever get a higher offer if buyers go in at the minimum price?

also does this mean that the player who lists his c-points as the cheapest always get picked first until he runs out then it moves onto the next person, thus keeping the price of the points fairly low as there is no point listing them high if everybody is listing low as you will never be able to get an offer as they will default to the lower ones first?
Why is it hard to understand? You will get your minimum as a seller, but if someone offers more, you will get more. As a buyer, you will pay your maximum.

Using your example:
Player A is willing to pay 300 per CP. Player B will sell for 200 CP. The system favors the seller, so Player A will pay the 300 per CP. Player B will make more than he asked for.

Same thing in your second example.
Player C will have to wait until someone is willing to take only 200 per point, at which time he will get his CP for 200 each. Player E offered 400, so he will pay 400 even if the seller only asked for 100.

Remember that the system favors the seller.

If a person is willing to pay 500 per point, they will pay 500 per point even if the seller only asked for 100.

Things are worth what people are willing to pay for them.

The person who lists his points the cheapest will probably sell out first, yes, because people who aren't willing to pay much for them will still be able to buy them. But the person who lists at 50 may end up selling for 250 because the system favors the seller.

What this means is this:

YOU list 100 points for 50 RD each.

I list 100 points for 250 RD each.

Player A offers to buy poitns for 200 RD each.

You will sell yours first, because the 200 RD isn't equal to my minimum offfer, but he will pay you 200 each per point because that is what he offered, even though you only asked for 50.

So you'd get 200 RD per point and I'd get nothing.

It would be the same if YOU listed 100 points at 50 RD and I listed 100 points at 500 RD.

Player B offeres to pay 400 RD per point. THe offer isn't equal to what I want, so my points sit there. Your points would sell, and at more than you wanted.

Yes, the lower value points will sell first, but they may sell for more than asked.

If YOU offer 100 points for 50 RD.

Player Z offers to pay 50 RD. Player X offers to pay 60 RD.

You will sell your points to Player X, becuase even though Player Z made an offer that you wanted, Plzyer X offered more. The system favors the seller so you always get the best deal.

Does this mean that higher value points won't sell? No. They may not sell as quickly as the lower priced ones, but the lower priced points will be harder to keep in stock.

If you are offering 500 CP for 100 RD each, and I am offering 500 CP for 300 RD each...yours will sell before mine. Anyone offering 100 to 299 would be able to buy your points. But once yours are gone, they will have to offer more to get mine, and that is when mine sell.

The value of the points will vary greatly, and some people will list theirs at the maximum, while others will list thiers at the minimum. It's just like the retail world. You sell your items for what people will pay for them. If you list points and they don't sell, you can lower you price. People won't pay that much. If you sell for 100 each time and they sell quickly, you can try to raise the price and see how they sell.

Best bet is to just sell them for what you think is fair. Even if I ask 500 for mine, if you think 250 is fair then ask for that. If someone is willing to pay more, you'll make more, but you won't ever make less than you ask for.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 175
11-03-2011, 07:40 AM
8000 dilithium refining limit per character per day. At 500, this means that my whole day's efforts yield me 16 CP? 20 cents? Really? I feel like I'm waiting around for a truck to pull up and offer me a job in the fields for the day. Hell, I wouldn't even part with my dilithium at 250, let alone 500. The way things are going you can do *nothing* worthwhile in this bold, new STO w/o it. It is the air we breathe and the rope by which we hang.

I've been seeing it build slowly but the writing on the wall is getting clearer with each day. Dilithium is the death cry of STO as we know it. Everything fun and original about this game is on it's way out. We, the paying customers, should not have things taken away (free retros, ability to have fleet crafters or having one toon that crafts for the rest) nor should we be tainted by the F2P game elements designed to encourage subbing because we *already* do.

Seperation of church and state would be nice. Let the freebies suffer under the heavy yoke of the dilithium system and subscribers taste the freedom of the way things have always been. You want incentive for people to sub? There you have it.

::Gets down off of soap box::
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 176
11-03-2011, 08:05 AM
This is why I've been putting my Cpoints under my matress......
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 177
11-03-2011, 08:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by staalker View Post
Why is it hard to understand? You will get your minimum as a seller, but if someone offers more, you will get more. As a buyer, you will pay your maximum.

Using your example:
Player A is willing to pay 300 per CP. Player B will sell for 200 CP. The system favors the seller, so Player A will pay the 300 per CP. Player B will make more than he asked for.

Same thing in your second example.
Player C will have to wait until someone is willing to take only 200 per point, at which time he will get his CP for 200 each. Player E offered 400, so he will pay 400 even if the seller only asked for 100.

Remember that the system favors the seller.

If a person is willing to pay 500 per point, they will pay 500 per point even if the seller only asked for 100.
This is not how it works. In these cases it favors the buyer, not the seller.

Example 1.
Player A will pay 200 and get 100 back.

Example 2.
Player E will pay 300, and get 100 back.

You set the maximum you wish to pay and the amount you wish to buy. The system will match you against sellers starting from the lowest price and moving up until either the only cp left are above your max or your order is filled. You will only pay what each seller has asked for.

You want to buy 1000 cp and are willing to pay 500 dil each - the system will take 500,000 dil from you and place in escrow. Then it will look at sellers. Let's say there is a lot of 300 cp at 200 dil, a lot of 500 cp at 300 dil, and a lot of 400 cp at 400 dil. There is enough to satisfy your order and you will pay 300 x 200 (60000) + 500 x 300 (150000) + 200 x 400 (80000) for a total of 290000 - and the other 210000 will go to your exchange bank.

Bottom line, buyer will get best possible price, seller will get what they asked for if someone is prepared to pay at least that.

Edit: I realized that this is just half the story. Sometimes it is the seller that is favored.

The above was for someone buying CP. Now let's look at someone selling CP.

Say you have 1000 cp and are willing to sell them for 100 dil each. The system takes my cp into escrow and looks for buyers. Say there is an order for 500 cp at 200 dil, an order for 400 cp at 300 dil, and an order 300 cp at 400 dil. This time the system will move from the top down matching orders until your order is complete. You will get 300 x 400 (120000) plus 400 x 300 (120000) plus 300 x 200 (60000) for a total of 300000 dilithium - making you a lot more dilithium than you would have settled for and the buyers pay what they were prepared to.

These two examples were for situations where there were enough matching orders already on the market to fill the order. If there are no matching orders then your order will remain until someone does match it. Orders may also be partially filled, depending on the size of matching orders.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 178
11-03-2011, 08:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by staalker View Post
Why is it to high? Just because you might think CP aren't worth more than 250 per point doesn't mean I do. Maybe I think that 500 isn't high enough.

I understand the need of a high limit just so people don't put 1CP for 1 million RD, I get that. But who are you to say that CP aren't worth 500 RD per point?

Something is worth exactly what a person is willing to pay for it. If you won't pay or won't charge more than 250 per point, that is your choice, that doesn't we all should be dictated to what you think is fair.
ok, i was giving my feedback which is what they asked for. cryptic think the upper cap is 500 which is already putting a value on points people might not agree with. i thought i sounded high (which i later changed my mind on). im not suggesting anyone be dictated to by what i think is fair. im giving them my first reaction. my opinion. if you dont like it then you can disagree with me all you like and you can suggest any limit you like but please dont attack me as if im telling them how to structure their game. if giving my opinion nothing more.

if you have an opinion on what it should be then please do as they ask and give feedback rather than attack my right to voice mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by staalker View Post
Why is it hard to understand? You will get your minimum as a seller, but if someone offers more, you will get more. As a buyer, you will pay your maximum.

Using your example:
Player A is willing to pay 300 per CP. Player B will sell for 200 CP. The system favors the seller, so Player A will pay the 300 per CP. Player B will make more than he asked for.

Same thing in your second example.
Player C will have to wait until someone is willing to take only 200 per point, at which time he will get his CP for 200 each. Player E offered 400, so he will pay 400 even if the seller only asked for 100.

Remember that the system favors the seller.

its hard to understand because that not what the dev have said and thats not what happens when you use the system in game. as a buyer if you offer a figure of 500 dilithium and its going for 100 you only pay 100 and get the rest back. the seller has gotten exactly what they asked for and no more and as the buyer i have paid less than i originally wanted. its benefited the buyer. ive already done this in game and the devs have confirmed this in the thread.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 179 hrm.
11-03-2011, 08:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lynerunner View Post
8000 dilithium refining limit per character per day. At 500, this means that my whole day's efforts yield me 16 CP? 20 cents? Really? I feel like I'm waiting around for a truck to pull up and offer me a job in the fields for the day. Hell, I wouldn't even part with my dilithium at 250, let alone 500. The way things are going you can do *nothing* worthwhile in this bold, new STO w/o it.
Imagine, if you will, that you've acquired all that you wish with RD. You may find yourself earning RD with no ambitions of spending it, just for the sake of discussion here, let's say this is case. Now, I definitely laugh a little bit at the 20 cents comment, too However, being that this is just a game, and we're mainly here to have fun, the other side of the argument could be that some players will not want to spend any cash, but they have played, and through playing, found leftover RD. These players can now offer up a bid/exchange for CP, to put to use a resource that would otherwise be idle. And, though gradually, with time, they could acquire something they like from the C-store.

I hope that makes sense, objectively.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 180
11-03-2011, 08:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PerRock View Post
if the exchange is account wide, who gets the dilithium? or looses it?

peter
Your entire account?

C-points are account wide, one would assume dilithium inventory is as well...
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