Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 111
11-03-2011, 03:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainGeko
We recognize that this is not ideal, but we ask that you bear with us while we react to this issue. In the short term, the only change we have planned is to make some items available by crafting only, and some items only available in the Dilithium store. Those crafting items will still cost Dilithium, but this will help mitigate the two systems from competing with each other..
You know, I'm not really into Crafting in MMOs in general, but, wow, just wow. Given teh above, if we really want a certain item we NEED to use this totally ridiculous Crafting mechanic and effective waste Dilithiium to get Crafting Skill increases to then Craft AND pay more Dilithium to get to 'Crafting only gear.

Don't tell me - let me guess the above idea was teh branchild of Stephen D’Angelo. Does he actually ever PLAY STO? (I'm just curious.)

You guys are so paranoid about this 'great' new Dilithium Economy; I have an idea....

Peopl have been suggesting names for the STO F2P - but given Cryptic management's obsession with Dilithium; if you want to be truthful - just call this game what you want it to become:

Dilithium Grind Online

(After 3 weeks, this is the 'big reveal' on how to fix STO Crafting? Seriously - a BETTER fix would jsut be to REMOVE crafting, anomolies, and the scanning mini-game from STO F2P and maybe reintroduce then if you ever do the 'Crafting Revamp'.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 112
11-03-2011, 04:18 PM
The "news" about the crafting system are very disapointing. The dilithium system over all is certainly a needed addtion for many game areas, but the way it is currently tied into crafting goes against any concept of crafting. It is not about crafting your own items, but making it valid game play to craft for other players.

Selling crafted items for normal ECs seems while needing Dilithium to craft seems like an inverted idea of the needed concept. The normal MMO concept of crafting would be to use in game gained resources, spend time and efford to make an items and sell it to other playxers against an in game currency. In STO we use the new dilithium currency + in game resources and time to craft an item that we afterwards "sell" for the old in game currency. At least add an option to sell crafted items not only for EC but also using dilithium.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 113
11-03-2011, 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainGeko
More love for Gold members:
If you are a gold member, each time you log in, the system will automatically refine your Dilithium Ore for each day that has passes since you last logged in - up to one week.
So, as a gold member, i get to avoid pushing a button that takes about 1 second.

I'm curious if i misread that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainGeko
The 500 day Veteran reward will now come with a free Vice Admiral ship token (account unlock). This change will be retroactive. If you are a 500 day veteran and already have a character that has earned a Vice Admiral Ship Token, that character will not get another one.
So, wait does this mean that you can earn the account unlocks in-game?

I have to actually say that is great, and a positive step.

Or does it mean 500 Vets have it happen like right now?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 114
11-03-2011, 04:29 PM
Wait, wait wait...

VA ship toke for 500 days... fine, I can live with that.

Account wide... also fine, great in fact.

BUT:

If I understand it correctly, I already have claimed a VA ship per token. But that wasn't a vet reward, that was for promotion to VA (the reason it's called a VA ship token). And i have done it about 8 or 9 times now with each toon.

Now I don't get to choose one again, or does the very first I ever picked becomes account wide retroactively?

Cause I sure as hell know that I can't claim a new and different one every time I level an alt to VA!

Or do I get nothing whatsoever because I already got the 250 emblem reward which was account wide so far?

What about any new characters I create? They get... NOTHING?

Please clarify?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 115
11-03-2011, 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonSpot
We still need a way to trade dilithium or buy the schematic with dilithium in order to not kill the fleet and alt crafters...
This, transfer the Dilithium cost to a portable component that can be traded, but not listed on the exchange. At least in the short term this gives players an option that still allows us to graft for others who "provide the mats"

Maybe different tiers can have different "Dilithium Matrix" crafted items that require no skill to make in the Crafting Panel that can be traded like schmatics, but not listed in the exchange, this preserves the economies and the current holodeck crafting function.

I am liking the other changes, though the Token at 500 days might be a bit far off, 100 days would probably be more appropriates place to add it to an existing tier.

I would like to offer that making the Dilithium pool a shared account wide resource for Gold accounts would be greatly appreciated by me at least.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 116
11-03-2011, 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt.William2 View Post
So, as a gold member, i get to avoid pushing a button that takes about 1 second.

I'm curious if i misread that?
Its not only you don't have to push the button, but the daily dilithium processing cap becomes a weekly cap for Gold Players.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 117
11-03-2011, 04:43 PM
Geko, thank you for the update and being up front with some information. Here's my opinions:
  1. Auto-refinement is a nice perk. You can take a week off and still get lots refined.

  2. 500 Day VA Ship Token. Nice but I hope this is not the replacement for 250 Emblems. You should be giving a stipend of Dilithium for 500 Days.

    VA Ship Token should be something like a 60 Day Vet Reward - thats $30.00 - more than enough to cover the cost of a ship if the person decies to go back to Silver. Make it 100 Days if the bean counters are still greedy.

  3. Crafting & Gear. Thank you for finally admitting that Dilithium is your way to monetize all gear for all players, Gold and Silver alike. This is the primary reason why I do not support the Dilithium System as a whole. I'll wait to see what you come up with for Crafting but I'm not holding my breath.
Making you play 3 X longer to obtain items at high ranks. Or making you buy C-Points just so you have enough Dilithium for the best gear. I realize it has to be this way in order for Dilithium to be valuable enough to trade for C-Points. Sadly, I think Dilithium will serve no purpose for me other than to end my support of the game.

If you really want to give "more love for gold members" then you should be implementing New Tech that does the following:
  1. "Bind on Account" Crafting for Gold Members with ZERO DL Requirement.
  2. "Bind on Fleet" Crafting for Gold Members with ZERO DL Requirement. (If person leaves fleet with Fleet Items or becomes a Silver Member, Fleet Items are Auto-Deleted).
  3. Account-Wide Bank for Gold Members that allows all your characters to trade Items, EC, and DL.
  4. Lower Dilithium Store Prices (prices that equate to former Emblems, Marks, Badges at all ranks).

And for Silver Members (F2P Revenue Source):
  1. High Dilithium Store Prices (boosts Trade for C-Points).
  2. High Dilithium Tax on Crafting (boots Trade for C-Points).
  3. C-Store Ground Gear (Uncommon, Rare, and Very Rare Items - costs increase with rarity)
  4. C-Store Ship Gear (Uncommon, Rare, and Very Rare Items - costs increase with rarity)

In any case, thank you for the communication. That has been lacking lately and is appreciated.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 118
11-03-2011, 04:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainGeko
Just wanted to get you few bits of news, and let you know that we have been listening closely to your feedback. Everything listed below will be released onto Tribble test server.

Crafting - This is a tough one. We recognize that some of you are not happy with the changes to crafting high end gear. We are doing our best to mitigate the issues. There are a lot of questions as why does crafting high end gear cost so much Dilithium. The bottom line is Dilithium is an important economy, and one that is tied directly into Cryptic Points (and thus real money). It is the foundation of the Free to Play economy and the games revenue model. The problem with crafting, as it works now, is that without Dilithium, a player can go onto the exchange, and get all crafting components they want, and then immediately craft a piece of gear, thus bypassing the Dilithium economy. We understand that crafting components are a time currently like Dilithium, but crafting components are nowhere near as regulated and managed as Dilithium. We recognize that this is not ideal, but we ask that you bear with us while we react to this issue. In the short term, the only change we have planned is to make some items available by crafting only, and some items only available in the Dilithium store. Those crafting items will still cost Dilithium, but this will help mitigate the two systems from competing with each other. In the end, we plan on overhauling the entire crafting system into something more tradition and interesting. More info on this in the near future.
.

CaptainGeko,

I appreciate Cryptic and yourself trying to work with the players, it can be hard to satisfy as much of us at one time as you can. I understand that you want to make the crafting worth something more than it currently is, and thats fine. I would like to give you (and Cryptic) an idea of what I (an average player) have encountered in F2P "Tribble" as far as dilithium. Please note that I have been testing it since the first week the server went up:

Playtime: about 1 hour a day
1st C-Store "stipend": as many DOff personell that the Cryptic points could buy.
2nd C-sotre "stipend": the golden tribble (that came with the Atari digital download) and the T-5 Excelsior.
Rank: RALH3
Dilithium: about 9,500
Dilithium expendatures: none (that I know of, did it cost me dilithium for the Commander level ship, didnt get Captain level)
Crafting: Zero

At the moment I still don't have enough dilithium to purchase a MK X puple Phaser DBB from the Starship Weapons Vendor at ESD. If I tried to got the crafting route, I still dont have resources to craft it. Heck, I dont even have all my consoles filled to MK X! (Some not filled at all.) I can see making it hard, but this is unbelievable! I don't think any of us want it to be easy, but I for one would like to know I put an honest effort to acquire an honest value.Especially for those of us who will continue to pay a monthly/yearly subscription.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 119
11-03-2011, 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexy
Its not only you don't have to push the button, but the daily dilithium processing cap becomes a weekly cap for Gold Players.
Maybe I missed it but what about collecting the DL? you still have to do the current dailies... and unless I'm mistaken ( which could be the case) you have to log in to collect the rewards from the DOFF system. So it seems to me( again assuming i'm not mistaken) that they're auto refining something your not collecting.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 120
11-03-2011, 05:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainGeko View Post
Just wanted to get you few bits of news, and let you know that we have been listening closely to your feedback. Everything listed below will be released onto Tribble test server.
You guys are busy, so communicating with your customers is important and appreciated! Thank you CaptainGeko.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainGeko View Post
...If you are a gold member, each time you log in, the system will automatically refine your Dilithium Ore for each day that has passes since you last logged in - up to one week.
I am against time-gating Gold Members at all. We pay you to play your game. If I want to spend all day Saturday to earn 40,000 Dil, then I should get to spend it right there on whatever shiney new toy I want. I should not have to wait 5 days to refine it.

The above is sort of a step in the right direction, it is a convenience added to the "bad"-gated system, in that I don't have to actually log-in each of those five days to get my toy, but I still have to wait five days. And I think that's a terrible thing to do to your paying customers!

You really want to show love to the Gold Members? Allow them unlimited daily refining. Or save the refining step altogether and just pay Gold Members in Refined Dilithium.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainGeko View Post
The 500 day Veteran reward will now come with a free Vice Admiral ship token (account unlock). This change will be retroactive. If you are a 500 day veteran and already have a character that has earned a Vice Admiral Ship Token, that character will not get another one.
This is interesting. According to sdangelo, the VA tokens were removed to stop a 1mo-sub exploit (link). Making a new subscriber wait 20 months seems an extreme way to close that loop-hole. If I understand you correctly though, you're making the VA1 token into an account-wide unlock instead of a single-character unlock the way it is on Holodeck now... Hmm... I'm not sure that offsets the difference. How many free unlocks can a subscriber get over 20mos with their Stipend? Plus, after 500 days, a player could easily have enough VA/LGs to freely unlock every ship. What's the point of them buying any from the C-Store?

Questions:
* What happens to VA characters that still have their VA token, but haven't spent it? What if they are Relentless VA characters?

* How does this affect those of us that already have all the VA Ships purchased from the C-Store (You're welcome, BTW )? How soon until you expect to have more VA Ships for me to unlock when my next character reaches VA?

* Is the VA token being added to the Relentless reward a "fix" for the lost ranking-VA token or a replacement for the removed 250 Emblems? Or both?

* Is this taking the place of the special Veteran BO Jheinig was discussing (link)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainGeko View Post
New Skill system... Torpedo Spread... New MT Ships...
Great, great, great. Good news here.

BTW, I think with $20+ items "in stock" you guys should stop calling it a MircoTransaction store.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainGeko View Post
Crafting....
There really isn't anything further I can add to this discussion here, suffice to say I am against the time-gating Dilithium being added to Crafting for paying customers. Still, thanks for hearing us. It will remain to be seen if you guys actually listen to us. I don't envy your position between your bean counters and us "No Dilithium Crafting" Paying Customers. Just remember... "The customer is always right."
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