Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
11-03-2011, 08:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nynik
It is really a measure to help those who can't log in every day due to X. At least with most games, if you don't log in for dailies you don't get the reward at all, but since this effects more than just dilithium from dailies but from all dilithium rewarding activities (not tied to daily lockouts), it really puts those people who can not log in everyday at a significant disadvantage in terms of refining.

So its not an issue with earning dilithium from dailies only, but being additionally penalised just because you can't get off work to refine 8k of your dilithium ore mountain (you made over a weekend of free time perhaps), each day.

At least, that is my understanding of it.

Not to mention, They give us a chump of Dilithium at each level, and Subscribers will be given Free Ship Tokens, so Gold Members will have quite abit saved up at VA just from leveling. The auto-refine will help balance the stock pile with the actual currency, my thanks goes out for this. You can't really be too upset when they give us more options in game
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
11-03-2011, 08:09 PM
From the last time I was on Tribble the exploration daily was a "daily" for each exploration zone. So you get a daily for B'Tran, a daily for Hiromi Cluster, etc...

From what I have seen you have around 10 daily exploration missions as a Fed (requiring you to complete 30 sub-missions) per day, and each one awards DL.

So, in my experience, with the academy, STFs, DOFF missions, and 10 daily exploration missions you can accrue a good chunk of DL in a single day.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
11-03-2011, 08:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asakara
From the last time I was on Tribble the exploration daily was a "daily" for each exploration zone. So you get a daily for B'Tran, a daily for Hiromi Cluster, etc...

From what I have seen you have around 10 daily exploration missions as a Fed (requiring you to complete 30 sub-missions) per day, and each one awards DL.

So, in my experience, with the academy, STFs, DOFF missions, and 10 daily exploration missions you can accrue a good chunk of DL in a single day.
Unfortunately not. There is a daily for B'tran, but the other exploration daily is called "Explore Strange New Worlds" and lets you pick any cluster to do a set of missions in. However it is the SNW daily that gives the DL, not the individual cluster sets. So there are actually only 2 different exploration dailies, each awarding 1440 ore.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
11-03-2011, 08:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
Unfortunately not. There is a daily for B'tran, but the other exploration daily is called "Explore Strange New Worlds" and lets you pick any cluster to do a set of missions in. However it is the SNW daily that gives the DL, not the individual cluster sets. So there are actually only 2 different exploration dailies, each awarding 1440 ore.
I guess things changed. Thanks for the clarification.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
11-03-2011, 08:26 PM
PWE/Cryptic seems to be operating under the assumption that Silver players (actually, nearly all players) will be logging in every day and slogging through as many of the Dilithium granting missions as possible, getting at least 8K Dilithium per day, and see adding an auto-refine feature as an added value for a Gold Subscription.

The thing is, that's a horribly, negligently ignorant assumption.

Nobody, not even a free player, is going to log in every day to do the exact same things over and over and over again, no matter what kinds of rewards they give give for it.

Honestly, lets think about this hypothetical grind-happy Silver Sub PWE/Cryptic envisions (all done using the math and numbers from the current Tribble Build):

They logs in every day, and they do the same repetitive niche missions and dailies every single day, once they hit the cap and have all the Dilithium granting missions available, they make more than 8K Dilithium per day which they refine every day, without fail.

What will they use all that Dilithium for? Gear? OK, Purple Mk XI Ship Weapons cost 22,620 Refined Dilithium each, Ship Shields, Deflectors and Impulse Engines are 43,350, Consoles are 11,350, Ground weapons are 11,350, Ground Shields and Armor are 7,555, their ship is geared up, their Away team and Captains are all geared up with Mk XI Purples, and all it took was 511,570 Refined Dilithium, and about 64 days of doing the same repetitive crap day-in, day-out, but PWE/Cryptic is assuming that's OK, so for the purposes of this hypothetical, we will too.

What then? Ships and C-Store stuff? Ok, they grind, and refine, and grind and refine, and grind and refine.. And eventually, after 10 days of that, they have 80,000 Refined Dilithium, which can be traded (at the best-case scenario rate of 50:1) for the 1,600 C-Points they need for their VA/LG ship. (OK, I admit, that didn't turn out to be as horrific as I thought)

Of course, as I said, this is the best case scenario, if the exchange rate goes the other way, with C-Points being hard to get and expensive, they'll need 800,000 Refined Dilithium, which will take them more than three months (100 days) to accumulate.

Unless, of course, they fork over real-world cash,as PWE/Cryptic obviously hopes they will do.

For free players, this will not be a game, there's nothing fun or entertaining about logging in for a minimum of 74 days of the same thing just to be equipped at the cap with less than top rate gear (you don't want to see the numbers for getting Purple Mk XII Gear).

Silver players, welcome to STO, the grind or pay. I hope you have Q-like patience or a bottomless bank account, you'll need one or the other.

Gold players, here's your numbers: Assuming you use your entire Stipend to exchange for Dilithium, at the best possible Exchange rate for you (which, by the way, is the worst case Exchange Rate for Silvers) you will be able to exchange your Stipend for 200K Dilithium per month, enough to outfit an Away Team, or almost enough to equip a Ship, on one character. I have six, that means, if I want to equip everyone and everything on all six characters with Mk XI Purples (as the Silver player above) without grinding, it's going to take me one year, four months.

Now, if a Gold Player does the grind and manages to exchange their Stipend at the best possible rate, they'll accumulate 448,000 Refined Dilithum per month, almost enough to do both your Away Team and your Ship, but still, sadly, not enough.

Oh, and all these numbers assume the player only uses one Away Team of four Boffs, and is using a Science Vessel (or Science Vessel equivalent) with a 3/3 Weapon, 3/4/2 Console set up, if you fly anything with seven or eight weapons, or have different Away Team for different situations, you'll need significantly more.

Now, realistically, Silvers aren't going to get the best Exchange Rate, and neither will the Gold Subscribers, so this is really the best-case scenario for both, these are the optimistic numbers people.

If the Devs think people aren't going to see this Economy for the Grind or Pay it is, they're sorely mistaken.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
11-03-2011, 08:28 PM
we aren't done fighting for them to add Dilithium to more activities either, so that you aren't forced into the daily grind.

If its a Time Currency, so your time spent in game in most activities should reward you.

Thus, once we get that done, the cap will be the true limiter of progression (which is fine now since you aren't punished for not logging in)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
11-03-2011, 08:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katic View Post
Nobody, not even a free player, is going to log in every day to do the exact same things over and over and over again, no matter what kinds of rewards they give give for it.
Well, thats not true. SOME people definitely will, but I dont think the majority will. However this is the very reason I think they need to abolish the dailies altogether and just have every mission grant DL. If you can only refine 8k per day then people should be able to earn it they way they enjoy the most.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
11-03-2011, 08:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reon View Post
Not to mention, They give us a chump of Dilithium at each level, and Subscribers will be given Free Ship Tokens, so Gold Members will have quite abit saved up at VA just from leveling.
Unfortunately not, Gold members get the Ship tokens up to and including RAUH, but they do not get the Dilithium chunks. Silvers get the not-quite-big-enough Chunks of Dilithium, but no Ship Tokens.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
11-03-2011, 10:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katic View Post
Unfortunately not, Gold members get the Ship tokens up to and including RAUH, but they do not get the Dilithium chunks. Silvers get the not-quite-big-enough Chunks of Dilithium, but no Ship Tokens.
I was unaware of this, I figured we would be getting both since both would be quite the perk. And they have said that they are adding the VA Token to 500 Vet Reward
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
11-03-2011, 10:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katic View Post
Nobody, not even a free player, is going to log in every day to do the exact same things over and over and over again, no matter what kinds of rewards they give give for it.
I remember reading the same thing when TBC came out for WoW but I'm pretty sure 90%+ of the population still went out to The Isle to do dailies and grind every single day. But WoW is alittle different, the entire server needed to unlock certain things by doing the dailies over and over. I think once you got to Phase 2 the Alchamy Lab opened up allowing Alchamist to make bigger and badder potions for raids.
The Isle dailies were 25 easy quests that would take probably the better half of 30 minutes to an hour to complete and would net about 200g. At the time, there wasn't much a typcial casual player could do to get money for things, items, repair bills etc.

So using the most popular MMO as an example, I think this statement is wrong. People will do the same thing over and over on a daily basis if they have the time to do so, and if they believe the reward is worth the time they put in. Dont even get me started on World PvP at the Isle >< That was the only reason I would refuse to do my dailies, and even then I would just log out for an hour. Since STO doesn't have flagged/open world PvP, they won't have to worry about the frustration of getting jumpped by 5 people over and over again.
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