Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
10-31-2011, 07:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakaishin
Tyken's Rift is not universally useful. At all.

Spread AND High Yield takes away from your damage output, which means that even a less-than-half decent healer will laugh at you.

Scatter AND Rapid Fire takes away from your damage output even further, which means that even a Tac flying a cruiser will be laughing at your DPS as he heals it.

PvP isn't about being universally useful... If you're "universally useful", you're SEVERELY lacking in what your team expects of you to succeed.

Speccing for 1v1s is stupid to begin with.

I can counter that build with... well... anything. It isn't "good" at anything. It's trying to do too many different things, stopping it from being a true threat, specializing in nothing.

Because he is an escort, arguably among the squishiest, he would die against anyone, flying any ship, without the world's most severe cases of cerebral palzy and down syndrome combined.

At least, without having the raw power to make up for it.

PvP isn't about how many different things YOU can do.

It's about how well you can make what YOU are EXPECTED to do work WITH your allies.

Your allies need to be able to count on you. I wouldn't waste my time counting on this, just looking at it screams that it wouldn't work in a reliable team and would just be leeching from the rest of us.

If I found myself with an Escort like this in my team, I'd already count the match as fighting down a man, 4 vs 5.

Edit: Besides... the OP requested a build to maximize damage... if you still argue this build does it, I lol.
You are welcome to bring it and try to put your Guns where your Keyboard is. I doubt anything short of a solid Sci Ship is going to ever bring down my MVAE. It is very tough for an Escort and your lack of understand of Tyken's tells me you do not have a full grasp of the way combat really works.

Also there is a good reason to spread your damage between Single and Multiple Targets (Especially now that Spread is nearly as powerful, and sometimes MORE powerful than High Yield) which simply put is: Multiple Opponents or Pet Spam. Letting those pets kill you is not helping you and if you have multiple targets one of the best ways to throw them off their game is to stop them from healing one guy and get them concerned about their own hide. It is amazing how fast a healer ditches his friend when his facing goes down and a spread of Quantums knocks 25% of his Hull away.

If you are simply dueling one on one and nothing else then the greater flexibility is not as useful but if you have ever fought a well setup carrier with BoP's, Fleet Support, and Photonic ships all coming to kill you then you know how useful it can be to eliminate a lot of excess Pet Spam DPS real fast. (Not to mention that if they are scrambling you having less targets really helps get your attack where you want it.)

Gravity well is... Ok... But it in their current state it is nowhere near as powerful as Tyken's... I can simply out run a GW without suffering any issue. It is good for clearing out Pet Spam and catching Captains with slow reaction times or slow ships but generally not that great.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
10-31-2011, 07:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinkuu_Akagan
Gravity well is... Ok... But it in their current state it is nowhere near as powerful as Tyken's
You can shoot down Tyken's Rift anomalies with BFAW in case you aren't currently aware of it's current state. It has a bug which does not effect Gravity Wells and that is one reason why Gravity Well is superior for crowd control. Any opponent in range of the Tyken's using BFAW will dispel the rift. Most teams who are aware of this bug will take advantage of it whenever a Tyken's is being used. For this reason, Tyken's can become a wasted BOff slot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinkuu_Akagan
Tyken's Rift II at your highest Sci Slot. Get your Aux power up with Efficiency skills. Put some effort into boosting Spatial Anom or carry around some Aux Batteries.
In my honest opinion, you could do better than Tyken's because:
  • You won't be running high Aux and can use those batteries or another device for something else.
  • The BFAW bug that exists will currently dispel your Tyken's Rift anomaly.
  • If you're going to use a Tyken's it should probably be the third version which you can't equip on an MVAM because there is no Commander Science slot. Tyken's Rift 2 is sort of underwhelming.

There are other choices for the Lt. Com. Sci slot on an MVAM. I'd recommend going for more survivability or getting a stun. Perhaps even a CPB. I personally like Photonic Shockwave on an MVAM because it is not Aux driven and gives you a short disable.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
11-01-2011, 06:00 AM
i'm gonna try both and c what happens,switching to antiproton is gonna take awhile.but i can try it on tribble.thanks for the help guys.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
11-01-2011, 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rooster75
You can shoot down Tyken's Rift anomalies with BFAW in case you aren't currently aware of it's current state. It has a bug which does not effect Gravity Wells and that is one reason why Gravity Well is superior for crowd control. Any opponent in range of the Tyken's using BFAW will dispel the rift. Most teams who are aware of this bug will take advantage of it whenever a Tyken's is being used. For this reason, Tyken's can become a wasted BOff slot.



In my honest opinion, you could do better than Tyken's because:
  • You won't be running high Aux and can use those batteries or another device for something else.
  • The BFAW bug that exists will currently dispel your Tyken's Rift anomaly.
  • If you're going to use a Tyken's it should probably be the third version which you can't equip on an MVAM because there is no Commander Science slot. Tyken's Rift 2 is sort of underwhelming.

There are other choices for the Lt. Com. Sci slot on an MVAM. I'd recommend going for more survivability or getting a stun. Perhaps even a CPB. I personally like Photonic Shockwave on an MVAM because it is not Aux driven and gives you a short disable.
Tyken's can utterly dismantle and enemy ship and leave them vulnerable for the kill in mere moments. It is far harder to get away from than GW and far more deadly than nearly anything else.

BFAW is a bug which will not remain. While it does you can easily wait for a proper time in a Duel (as you should not pop abilities at random anyway) and in teams you can bait the FAW lovers with a Tyken's from one ship then Scramble Sensors with another as they begin firing... Soo much fuuun watching them do your work for you. There are workarounds.

As for low Aux, my Aux is high enough to get the job done especially with Gamma piece adding to their shield issues or being IN Gamma piece myself.

It honestly makes me sad to see how few people really understand what that little power box is telling you and what it does. I do understand that it is a bit confusing and that in Mode 1 it does not convey what is going on very well but in Mode 3 things start to become more clear. So many people die to the Breen Capital ship just because they get Nuked with Tyken's III and do not know what it does to them. They also die to multiple Breen Cruisers because they get Multi-Syphoned into oblivion but likewise do not understand what is happening to them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
11-01-2011, 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkanine View Post
i'm gonna try both and c what happens,switching to antiproton is gonna take awhile.but i can try it on tribble.thanks for the help guys.
You are welcome and it is always good to test out anything you might think is a good build. That is how the best builds get made. You may well find some more things that work even better with more testing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
11-04-2011, 10:54 AM
i am going to test out a setup of borg console,borg defl,borg eng and covariant cap x 3 shields.i will post how this set up does in pvp.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
11-04-2011, 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakaishin
Tyken's Rift is not universally useful. At all.

Spread AND High Yield takes away from your damage output, which means that even a less-than-half decent healer will laugh at you.

Scatter AND Rapid Fire takes away from your damage output even further, which means that even a Tac flying a cruiser will be laughing at your DPS as he heals it.
I choked on my Gagh!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
11-04-2011, 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakaishin

PvP isn't about how many different things YOU can do.

It's about how well you can make what YOU are EXPECTED to do work WITH your allies.

Your allies need to be able to count on you. .
but this made up for it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
11-04-2011, 02:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakaishin
Tyken's Rift is not universally useful. At all.

Spread AND High Yield takes away from your damage output, which means that even a less-than-half decent healer will laugh at you.

Scatter AND Rapid Fire takes away from your damage output even further, which means that even a Tac flying a cruiser will be laughing at your DPS as he heals it.

PvP isn't about being universally useful... If you're "universally useful", you're SEVERELY lacking in what your team expects of you to succeed.

Speccing for 1v1s is stupid to begin with.

I can counter that build with... well... anything. It isn't "good" at anything. It's trying to do too many different things, stopping it from being a true threat, specializing in nothing.

Because he is an escort, arguably among the squishiest, he would die against anyone, flying any ship, without the world's most severe cases of cerebral palzy and down syndrome combined.

At least, without having the raw power to make up for it.

PvP isn't about how many different things YOU can do.

It's about how well you can make what YOU are EXPECTED to do work WITH your allies.

Your allies need to be able to count on you. I wouldn't waste my time counting on this, just looking at it screams that it wouldn't work in a reliable team and would just be leeching from the rest of us.

If I found myself with an Escort like this in my team, I'd already count the match as fighting down a man, 4 vs 5.

Edit: Besides... the OP requested a build to maximize damage... if you still argue this build does it, I lol.
Agreed. Too many ppl build for 1v1, and thats why pugs fail, a lot. Players need to commit to thier roles, not try to do everything. a DPS dealer should focus on killing targets, leave Crowd control to your sci player, and healing to your healer etc etc.

The one thing I differ on, is that I'm a firm believer in using torps as a dps dealer, for good spike dps. all cannons is great for dps, and sure the scoreboard will say so too, but I'd rather to 35K damage insta popping you, than do 200K damage shooting at you for 10 minutes, and that is the difference IMHO. But thats just me, I have plenty of fleet mates to don't run torps who might dissagree with me.

And I'm sorry, I stopped reading at tykens rift on an escort too. that is pure LULZ. even at Half A**ed amount of AUX power, that simply is not effective, not for what could be put in its spot, like a PSW or TSS3 perhaps.
The only time I think GW or Tykens are effective is at FULL AUX, and honestly tykens is best when paired with a GW or at the very least some tractor beam action, its too easy to get out of, especially if some silly escort is using it :p.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
11-04-2011, 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkanine View Post
i am going to test out a setup of borg console,borg defl,borg eng and covariant cap x 3 shields.i will post how this set up does in pvp.
borg shields FTW! I know alot of ppl think covariants x3 are the only way to go, I just could't disagree more. yea that higher cap makes you feel better about those oh so scary alpha strikes flying around these days, but once those shields go down, they tend to stay down under fire, short of any support from your team. Where as the borg shields,
A. Have a +5 shield power boost, which boosts regen rates + defense, and
B. have an insanely high regen rate even on an escort.

In a day in age where all you need to get those shields up is have two tac teams, and two copies of power to shields, and I hope you do , having that high regen rate coupled with good shield power from your two copies of EPtS 1+2, they'll come up plenty fast compared to the capx3. I have 4 escorts, and they all run borg shields. Actually, I really nifty way to go, is to run the AEGIS deflector and the rest BORG, reason being the AEGIS DEFLECTOR has a +5 shield power boost as well, so that coupled with your Borg shield result in +10 sheild power PLUS your two copies of power to shields.....sooo what does this mean for you? well it means +100 shield power with 2 1/2 times the regen rate of those capx3's! I run 110 wep power on my scorts, and it feels great. Throw in a Field Generator for +35% shield Capacity and a +13% Shield Regen Rate engy consoles, and you're one tanky escort! If you run the Sci version of the AE, which is a great idea I think, run some transfer shield strengths, or Hazard Emiters, maybe a Tractor beam for flavor. Either way, lots of survivability offered with a LTC sci slot station.


Now the down side is that if your "situational awareness" is not very quick, and you tend to react too slowly to Alpha strikes, then this may not be for you, and having the extra cap defence may be nice. but be advised, that without team support, those cap x3 shields will come down at some point, and they're very hard to get back up comparatively speaking.

Just my 2 1/2 cents, worth exactly that.
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