Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
11-14-2011, 05:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
Unfortunately FF died not becuase of being too realistic for the playerbase to adapt to, but becuase some players where not mature enough to not grief with it and the Devs did not disable the power in social areas.
well fire atwill has still the tac officer of the ship picking targerts, so thats not friendly fire.
And scrambe sensors is a prety destict attack, unlike antimatteer spread its not just throwing crap arround and hoping it effects the enemy, it is a sensor probe infecting the enemys sensor and screwing up their friend/foe detection with probably some kind of virus (since it uses the same skills as viral matrix thats imo the reasonable term), so that shouldnt be ff, too, in my opinion.

for the major part of the rest i'd agree...
And for the griefers... why not just disabling combat in social zones generally...
Would deffinitly increase admiral quinns survival chances if theyforget next time while creating new kdf ships to change transwarp after copy/pasteing fedships..
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
11-14-2011, 05:19 AM
Smart Target is a complete garbage justification. Bullets do not magically distinguish between friend or foe and miniguns dont just switch off when your literally SPRAYING them. This is EXACTLY what the miniguns, pulsewaves and High Density Rifles do by affecting everything within the cone.

Anything with a cone effect WOULD affect EVERYONE in that cone.
As such friendly fire 'realism' demands these weapons hit EVERYONE in that cone and Line of Sight of the weapon.
End of Discussion.

I will TOTALLY enjoy being on ground zones or Starfleet Academy with folks spraying cone weapons all over the place and these powers screwing everyone.

FF has no place in STO, the playerbase cannot handle it, the game mechanics cannot handle it and Cryptic have made it repeatedly clear Gameplay > Realism.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
11-14-2011, 07:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Sheridan
Smart Target is a complete garbage justification. Bullets do not magically distinguish between friend or foe and miniguns dont just switch off when your literally SPRAYING them. This is EXACTLY what the miniguns, pulsewaves and High Density Rifles do by affecting everything within the cone.

Anything with a cone effect WOULD affect EVERYONE in that cone.
As such friendly fire 'realism' demands these weapons hit EVERYONE in that cone and Line of Sight of the weapon.
End of Discussion.

I will TOTALLY enjoy being on ground zones or Starfleet Academy with folks spraying cone weapons all over the place and these powers screwing everyone.

FF has no place in STO, the playerbase cannot handle it, the game mechanics cannot handle it and Cryptic have made it repeatedly clear Gameplay > Realism.
Star trek in general is full of complete garbage techno-babble explanations, why start critigueing them now?
You're right though the playerbase can not handle FF, thats very evident.
Guess we can look foward to more Gravity wells at .5 km only affecting targets will the caster is immune to the hole in space-time, or targetable PSW's that only know how to affect the enemy or CPBs that only effect the enemy, etc, etc.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
11-14-2011, 07:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
Star trek in general is full of complete garbage techno-babble explanations, why start critigueing them now?
You're right though the playerbase can not handle FF, thats very evident.
Guess we can look foward to more Gravity wells at .5 km only affecting targets will the caster is immune to the hole in space-time, or targetable PSW's that only know how to affect the enemy or CPBs that only effect the enemy, etc, etc.
Well I dont see where "Smart Targert" is technobabble in comparison to many other things,... its, in the time STO takes place a simple and reasonable explanation...

And the comunity not beeing able to hanlde FF.... well may be they = those whe cant handle it... would finally LEARN to handle it... and with it gaining a little skill.

Also seeing wich abilitys are suggestet for FF... there would still be enough abilitys WITHOUT FF to pick for those who feel to capable...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
11-14-2011, 07:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haglahay
Friendly fire in video games takes away from the sole purpose of games - to have fun.
You can't have fun while being careful not to hit your team mate?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
11-14-2011, 08:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
Star trek in general is full of complete garbage techno-babble explanations, why start critigueing them now?
What techno-babble explanation does Star Trek invent for weapons working on enemies but not on allies. Please demonstrate it so I can then promptly laugh at what you have proven.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
You're right though the playerbase can not handle FF, thats very evident.
Thank you for finally getting the point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
Guess we can look foward to more Gravity wells at .5 km only affecting targets will the caster is immune to the hole in space-time, or targetable PSW's that only know how to affect the enemy or CPBs that only effect the enemy, etc, etc.
I would rather have a game that works properly and cannot be abused than vice versa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstAngelus
Well I dont see where "Smart Targert" is technobabble in comparison to many other things,... its, in the time STO takes place a simple and reasonable explanation...
A Smart Target dosent explain jack about why firing an expanding pulswave will ONLY hit enemies in the wave cone. The same applies to ALL Cone weapons. Someone is in front of you while you fire your gun - Sorry, no amount of 'Smart Target' is going to prevent that person from getting hit.

Result: BOFFs will end up KILLING YOU and NPCs will kill each other with their spray attacks. There is nothing the game engine is going to be able to do to avoid Friendly Fire when it comes to AI without serious issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstAngelus
And the comunity not beeing able to hanlde FF.... well may be they = those whe cant handle it... would finally LEARN to handle it... and with it gaining a little skill.
I cant believe you are this dense not to get it yet.

LET ME MAKE IT ABUNDANTLY CLEAR

Person 1 goes into Melee with an NPC
Person 2,3,4,5... shoots NPC with a Cone Weapon
Person 1 gets wasted

In an STF that might be avoidable
In a Warzone like Otha, Fleet Action like Breaking the Planet or combat zone like Deferri, Starfleet Academy that will be a disaster

How fun is it going to be to turn a corner in Starfleet Academy only to get a facefull of weapons fire because the person is fighting a holographic Klingon. Thats just going to be the ACCIDENT version.

Alternatively, someone goes into these with large AOE stuff in Deferri and goes out of their way to use them on enemies that are beside people.
Oh look, that guy is fighting a Borg, I'll just place myself into LOS so I can shoot that person in the back with a pulsewave or drop a stun grenande that nukes them both.

It's not about people simply learning to handle it, its about preventing people who ABUSE it from handling it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstAngelus
Also seeing wich abilitys are suggestet for FF... there would still be enough abilitys WITHOUT FF to pick for those who feel to capable...
Fine, you will support full 3D motion including the ability to invert your ship.
Those who cant handle it and get vertigo - Too bad, they can get a toggle that will keep them level.
Funny how myself and others suggested this repeatedly during beta and the resounding answer was: No, the majority do not want it and cant handle it per Cryptic trying it before.

We want realism... oh but we dont want THAT realism because we cant handle it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
11-14-2011, 08:39 AM
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Sheridan
What techno-babble explanation does Star Trek invent for weapons working on enemies but not on allies. Please demonstrate it so I can then promptly laugh at what you have proven.
Smart targeting is techno-babble and some that is used in other games to explain the otherwise impossible. Why do I have to prove that Star Trek is repleat with techno-babble and that one more use of such babble BS would not upset the balance?

Quote:
Thank you for finally getting the point.
I've known for a while now that some players belong on the short bus, just didn't expect it to be so evident when FF was applied to mines and Tricobalts.
Game fun over realism is fine until it doesn't make sense, like so many things in STO do not.

Quote:
I would rather have a game that works properly and cannot be abused than vice versa.
Even though the "working" game is so easily abused?

Quote:
I cant believe you are this dense not to get it yet.
Oh, I get it. Just don't like it and feel if they can give a techno-babble reason for anything else they wish to explain away in ST, then it could work here too.
It makes complete sense why a vessel can go from 5% to 100% hull in a second or why that escort/raider/raptor can sit inside a gravity well while firing at its target and not be affected by it or how a Photonic shockwave can only effect the enemy in a crowded spawn point or any number of other ingame events.
One can only suspend disbelief so far before it just becomes impossible.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
11-14-2011, 12:13 PM
Alright folks, Let's go ahead and end this thread now. It's getting a little too hot for my tastes.

Thanks,

Stormshade
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