Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
11-17-2011, 06:51 AM
Exploration is the hardest thing to put in a game. Either every planet, map, etc has to be specifically created and designed (meaning few of them) or it has to be randomly generated. Random generated dungeons were used in the earlier Elder Scrolls games with mixed success, they always lack the polish of programmer designed ones. However those games were lauded for the feeling of infinite places to explore. In the end though, the random dungeons were not cool enough for most people to want to explore them.

The kind of expore strange new worlds many people want in STO would require constant programming by someone and might bring about 1 new race/planet every two weeks or month. Would that be enough? Maybe so.

In my experience longevity comes from ways for players to compete with each other, aka PvP. Starcraft is still played with the same content for many years, although maps can be created by users, a big plus. FPS games can be fun for a long time with the same content because the competion, human factor, always changes and evolves. I hope for some major additions to STO in this area, not just arena maps, but major competitive objective based maps built around conventional strategy, like two teams trying to destroy each others' base while defending their own (space and ground versions). FOUNDRY created PvP maps.

I still enjoy playing though and seem to be one of the few excited about the changes coming. I hope the new F2P design is enjoyable to many people and enables lots of added content, with a minimum of people dissatisfied. We'll see.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
11-17-2011, 07:28 AM
Point taken, Buccaneer. However, the overarching point is now that STO is currently the major Star Trek game on the market given the demise of Infinite Space, one would think an effort to keep the Star Trek fans who are still playing here by increasing the scope of the Trek experience, would be priority one. Instead, we get a blatant money-grab conversion aimed at a generic hardcore gaming audience, with the casual player and Trek fan left to wonder what is next.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
11-17-2011, 07:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by supreme_heretic View Post
I don't pretend to know MMO type games thoroughly, since STO is the only one I have played. However, I know the games that have longevity are those with active customer support, and have regular content updates. This particular game to this point appears to have fallen short of the mark on both counts. Just saying.
A certain MMO that launched this year has had 6 big content updates in 9 months. Not that it had a lack of content to beging with.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BuccaneerDTB
Exploration is the hardest thing to put in a game. Either every planet, map, etc has to be specifically created and designed (meaning few of them) or it has to be randomly generated. Random generated dungeons were used in the earlier Elder Scrolls games with mixed success, they always lack the polish of programmer designed ones
STO seems to be a mixture of both. A selection of pre-randomized maps. I've lost count of how many times I been in that same Klingon village with houses that are floating in the air and one enemy group starting on top of a building.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
11-17-2011, 07:54 AM
" but what incentive do I have to continue "

You should not have to be provided with an incentive to play a game, any game. You really should play it to enjoy it. Liking it is not enough. As although you like it, you may seem stale and old hat to you at the moment and hence you do not enjoy playing it.


No one can play one game forever. There is no way an producer can create content faster than the players can burn through it, this is obvious if you have played a number of MMOs.


I suggest that you give the game a break and come back after 6 months or so, you have a LTS so you will not miss any of the rewards. You may view the game differently then and have a new desire to play it for what it is and not for what it can or may offer you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
11-17-2011, 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maina View Post
seems like all the games I play'd before. Don't understand why you all think this is different, unless it's your first.

Then again, I see the same posts on all the other game forums, I wish that someday, the true experts would "man up" and design the game they so think everything should be. Oh well I can dream....
Some of us who have worked in the Video Game Design field left for good reason and won't ever look back. Not even for Star Trek.

Never. Again.

But, then again, I'm also not one of the people who sit around and say "Cryptic does [this, or that] [right or wrong]", as I have a strong imagination and make the game what I want it to be. I enjoy the fact that if I want to zone out and re-live my childhood 'Trek fantasies, I can log into STO and play by myself and do so with no detriment to my in-game experience. Try doing that in WoW, ****, or any other MMO. You'll find yourself quickly unable to get very far without a group.

I just log in, pick my persona, and let my brain do the rest. I guess I'm weird like that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
11-17-2011, 08:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuccaneerDTB
Exploration is the hardest thing to put in a game. Either every planet, map, etc has to be specifically created and designed (meaning few of them) or it has to be randomly generated. Random generated dungeons were used in the earlier Elder Scrolls games with mixed success, they always lack the polish of programmer designed ones. However those games were lauded for the feeling of infinite places to explore. In the end though, the random dungeons were not cool enough for most people to want to explore them.

The kind of expore strange new worlds many people want in STO would require constant programming by someone and might bring about 1 new race/planet every two weeks or month. Would that be enough? Maybe so.

In my experience longevity comes from ways for players to compete with each other, aka PvP. Starcraft is still played with the same content for many years, although maps can be created by users, a big plus. FPS games can be fun for a long time with the same content because the competion, human factor, always changes and evolves. I hope for some major additions to STO in this area, not just arena maps, but major competitive objective based maps built around conventional strategy, like two teams trying to destroy each others' base while defending their own (space and ground versions). FOUNDRY created PvP maps.

I still enjoy playing though and seem to be one of the few excited about the changes coming. I hope the new F2P design is enjoyable to many people and enables lots of added content, with a minimum of people dissatisfied. We'll see.
In terms of exploration, eh. I played Eve Online back when it first started years ago, and from day 1 they had a HUGE in-game universe that you could explore. I can't count how many times I would just crank my engines all the way up on the fastest ship I could find and fly in one direction for DAYS (real time) just to see if I really could fly to the places I just used a warp drive to get to, or if it was just a 'perceived hugeness' in space. Guess what? After a week and a half, I actually crossed one solar system.

If CCP/White Wolf could do that YEARS ago, why can't Cryptic do it NOW?

Incoming excuses from Cryptic about how the current tech doesn't allow it: Erm... DESIGN SOMETHING THAT DOES THEN. "Tech Limitations" excuse is getting old. I have never seen another MMO say "We can't do that because the game won't allow it." ....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
11-17-2011, 09:05 AM
Admiral Chase, fascinating discussion. Being primarily a console player I have found on many games I have played in the past they seem to limit themselves because the developers don't push the bounds of what the given system can do, they sort of develop in a "safe" zone that is short of it. I'd like to see some innovation on the tech side as well for STO...you know, push the limits of your engine.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
11-18-2011, 10:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralChase
In terms of exploration, eh. I played Eve Online back when it first started years ago, and from day 1 they had a HUGE in-game universe that you could explore. I can't count how many times I would just crank my engines all the way up on the fastest ship I could find and fly in one direction for DAYS (real time) just to see if I really could fly to the places I just used a warp drive to get to, or if it was just a 'perceived hugeness' in space. Guess what? After a week and a half, I actually crossed one solar system.

If CCP/White Wolf could do that YEARS ago, why can't Cryptic do it NOW?

Incoming excuses from Cryptic about how the current tech doesn't allow it: Erm... DESIGN SOMETHING THAT DOES THEN. "Tech Limitations" excuse is getting old. I have never seen another MMO say "We can't do that because the game won't allow it." ....
No arguement from me. I just remember SWG had huge planets to explore as well, but the novelty wears quick and everyone quick-travelled everywhere. But the option to take the slow, long road does have value. Even if it is rarely used, just knowing it's there.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
11-19-2011, 12:14 AM
I don't post very often to be honest but Heretic brings up a good point and so does Mr. Nagus (TM) I have a lot of mixed feels about the game myself.

I don't know why but I'm still optimistic. I think it's because I take breaks. I know that for the last year Cryptic as a company has been in bad place. Anyone that's been in a buy out or sale of a company or a re-org you know what I mean. I've played quite a few MMO's not going to name them because well you know why... Point being I've seen all of them go through rough patches and I mean all of them. Game Dev's just like the economy and people have off days, weeks and years.

I've been around since closed Beta and I remember when the game was almost unplayable due to the amount of bugs and lack of equipment to cope with all the new players. I saw them bounce back from that and I saw them start to make real progress that first year. Then well we all know what happened next in year 2 so I'm not going to dwell on it.

I think the reason I still have a bit of faith in the old girl is that. I knew from the beginning that STO wasn't going to be a full time occupation like some of my previous MMO's. I'm to old and busy to log in everyday now. So I don't feel the grind of logging in everyday for the same dailies or a want of something to do. I think I also still have hope because I have seen FTP breath new life into a couple of games that floundered quite badly.

I will however be honest I think part of the reason I am forgiving is that quite honestly the game is not costing me anything other than what I invested in my lifetime sub and what I'm will to spend in the C-Store. Do I like everything they have done with the C-Store... no. But in the end the money is still spent so no point in dwelling on it.

The thing is over all though I have seen what Cryptic can do when they are inspired and have the time. The featured episodes for this game for this game are some of the best free content I have seen in any game ever.

Now if by say June of next year nothing has changed... well I may change my tune but for now I will take a wait and see attitude.

I figure they do make changes and sometimes they even make changes the players request most of the time when we act nicely and are asking for something reasonable instead of demanding something like a spoiled child who's not getting what they want... Anyone who's a parent knows what I'm talking about.

Will I always play this game probably not. Do I intend to enjoy this game while it's here you betcha. It's a game and it's suppose to be about fun and when it stops then I will also.

Odan
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