Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Ok ... I'm currently working on my build for both my T5 Raptor as well as my T-5 Defiant.

What would be a good build for dog fighting ... for a player that likes to get in close on attack runs and hang with his opponent for a time while fighting?

Curious as to what others think as well as best use of DPS vs. firing arcs.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
11-20-2011, 08:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by P-A-T-H-F-I-N-D-E-R
Ok ... I'm currently working on my build for both my T5 Raptor as well as my T-5 Defiant.

What would be a good build for dog fighting ... for a player that likes to get in close on attack runs and hang with his opponent for a time while fighting?

Curious as to what others think as well as best use of DPS vs. firing arcs.
This is my build. I have been using it for a very long time, and it does work. (At least for me) I have never lost 1vs1 with this build, and the only time you might loose 1vs1, is against a klink, and the only reason he might win. is because of his increased turn rate. He can keep his DHC's trained on you more then you can.
The only thing that I might possibly change with this build is running 4 DHC's, instead of 3 and one quantum. But that is just experimental with me right now. This build I know works, so try it out, and customize it to your needs.

All Weapons are Mk XI Very Rare:

Fore weapons:
3 Anti-Proton Dual Heavy Cannons
1 Quantum Torpedo Launcher

Aft Weapons:
3 Anti-Proton Turrets

Consoles: All are Mk XI Rare

Full Borg Set:

Engineering Consoles:
1 EPS flow regulator
1 Nutronium Alloy

Science Consoles:
Borg Universal console
1 Halon System

Tactical:
3 Prefire Chamber (Or 4 depending on your setup)
1 Quantum Chamber

Bridge Officers.

Tactical:
THY 1, CRF 1, THY 3, CRF 2, TT 1, TT1, APB 1, & APO 3. (The reason for this, is when you first strike, hit APO, APA, CRF 2, THY 3, & TT 1. This sends CRF 1, THY 1, APB 1, and TT 1 in a 15 second cool-down. Just keep switching between the two.

Engineering:
EPtS 1 & 2 (Not only do they raise your shields, but they give you shield resistance, and shield power which is great for the Borg shields)

Science:
Polarized Hull 1
Hazard Emitters 2
These share a cool down. But if you time it right, it doesn't matter. Polarized Hull only lasts for 15 seconds. That is how long it sends HE into a cool down. So you hit Polarized hull, then HE 15 seconds later.

This is what you do:

Cloak, get behind someone. Hit all your abilities. Fire on my mark, APO, APA, CRF 2, THY 3, & TT 1.
Decloak. and fire.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3 Dog fighting thoughts
11-20-2011, 11:57 PM
Hey Pathfinder,

After giving your question some consideration I'd suggest the following, It is a little unorthodox, but if turn fighting is your aim then give this a whirl

2 single cannons (ACC x3 if you can get them)
1 DBB (ACC x3)
1 DHC (ACC x3)
3 turrets (ACC x3)

Now, before the masters of the Alpha Strike spew their drink with the claims of noob etc., consider that what 'we' are looking for is consistent hits on target over time. If you end up turn fighting another escort we want to maximize the ability to keep the targets shields down and be able to spike them before the next Epts takes affect. The 180 degree cannon arc (plus the turrets) allow you to put down a consistent barrage of bolts while attempting to gain a position of advantage. Granted, individual skill is the biggest factor in what arcs (and canon types) you choose to utilize.

Abilities:
CMDR: TT1, BO2, ApO1, CRF3
LT CMDR: TT1, CRF1, ApO1
EN: Target Engines 1

LT: Epts 1&2
LT: HE1, TSS2

Equipment:
Aegis Deflector
Aegis Engines
Borg Regenerative Shields

Subspace Field Modulator
Deuterium Surplus (or red matter capacitor)

EPS Flow regulator
35% shield capacity console

Impulse Capacitance cell (From the Gladius) / or a halon console (for what little it is worth)
Assimilated Console

4 energy type +26 boosters

Yes there is a little P2W sprinkled in there. Run with power at 100/25/50/25. We are going with partial Aegis for the 10% defense bonus and partial borg for the extra heal. I tend to prefer the two Omegas because of the rampant tractor beam spam. Target engines to reduce bonus defense (also turn rate) and BO 2 for spike damage. The impulse console as of now stacks with deuterium, for those times your duel gets interrupted by some unscrupulous interloper. Just pop Omega, Deuterium and impulse boost and in 5 seconds you'll be 50 or 60 km away, wondering where you ended up.

Anyway I'm sure you'll tweak it to your liking, but this has been effective for me versus, MVAM beta sections and other Defiants focused on Boom and zoom tactics. As written it isn't the heaviest hitter, but at 3 - 5 km it does good sustained DPS the extra arcs in the cannons do keep the pressure on when buffed.

Of note, I'm assuming you are using the elusive trait. The above should give you 90% base bonus defense and about 105% when you use evasive manuvers or the subspace field modulator. The accurate trait with it's 10% bonus accuracy will help your crits further and ensure more hits on target.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
11-21-2011, 03:36 AM
If you want to play 1on1 matches, there is no better build than a beam escort. You'll simply out-dps your opponent. This is not a build for teams or premades, taking down anything but escorts or bops will be tough unless you use a science captain.

Basic Build (MV Advanced Escort):
1 DBB, 2 BA or 3 BA
1 Quantum

3 BA

Borg engine, deflector
Normal Mk XI [Cap]x3 shield or Covariant Mk XI [Cap]x2 and resistance against whatever damage type your opponent uses, i.e. [Pha], [AP], [Tet] etc.
1 Field Generator, 1 EPS
1 MV-Console, 1 Borg Console, Induction Stabilizers
4 +26 weapon type consoles

TT1, TS2, BFAW3, APD3
TT1, TS2, BT:E3
EPtS1, EPtS2
TSS1, HE2
TSS1

I've won the last 12 matches in the German 1on1 league with 120:3 kills using this or similar builds with a tac captain.

You can try using a Defiant with a full alpha strike loadout, but it's so damn easy to defend against it when it uncloaks. Simply activate Tac Team and get out of the firing arc.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
11-21-2011, 07:05 AM
Well,
if you want sustained DPS, then DBB are the way to go. With the Defiants turn rate you can always keep your opponent in the 90' degree firing arc. However, with a little bit of practice, DHC, will out DPS DBB's any day. I am trying this out, and you can to. Put an RCS accelerator in your engineer slot. The RCS console is based off of percentage. Putting an RCS console on my Defiant raises my turn rate 5 degrees, which makes it about 38 degrees. Slow to half, or a little above, and you can always keep any ship in your 45' firing arc. The only time you might have a little difficulty is a BOP, other then that, you will destroy your opponents. If you are going to use beams, get BO 3. And don't put beams on your aft. You don't want to hit BO 3, and have activate on one of your aft beams. Use turrets. I learned that the hard way. If you have to go with Beams, make sure you use BO 3, and even 2 copies if you can get it. You have to remember, the defiant wasn't made for sustained DPS. It was made to kill opponents before they kill you. There are ways to make the defiant do sustained DPS, but you aren't going to be using it to it's full advantage. With the build I have posted, Use CRF 3, and APO 1. That will help with sustained DPS. Other then that I don't think I would change it much. Hope this help.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
11-21-2011, 10:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HamRadio18
Well, if you want sustained DPS, then DBB are the way to go. With the Defiants turn rate you can always keep your opponent in the 90' degree firing arc. Versus cruisers, and science ships I'd agree, however given a competent escort pilot I'd say this can vary quite a bit.

However, with a little bit of practice, DHC, will out DPS DBB's any day. Totally agreed

Put an RCS accelerator in your engineer slot. The RCS console is based off of percentage. Putting an RCS console on my Defiant raises my turn rate 5 degrees, which makes it about 38 degrees. I keep one in my inventory just in case I have a pesky escort that is just running rings around me.

Slow to half, or a little above, and you can always keep any ship in your 45' firing arc. The only time you might have a little difficulty is a BOP, other then that, you will destroy your opponents.

If you are going to use beams, get BO 3. And don't put beams on your aft. You don't want to hit BO 3, and have activate on one of your aft beams. Use turrets. I learned that the hard way. While I think overload 3 is definitely worth the slot, with all the tractor beams and sci spam, IMHO the extra omega is just too good to pass up. With tactical initiative your getting around 66% uptime with 2x copies.

If you have to go with Beams, make sure you use BO 3, and even 2 copies if you can get it. I think that it would be better to continually rotate omega, CRF vs the energy requirements of 2 overload 3s. with CRF 3 your getting more buff for all your canons and turrets stacked with omega. Not saying your beam escort can't be effective with that setup, but if you have the turrets why not get as much as you can out of them.

You have to remember, the defiant wasn't made for sustained DPS. It was made to kill opponents before they kill you. Well all escorts fit this concept. Cloak just makes it one of the better predators federation side

There are ways to make the defiant do sustained DPS, but you aren't going to be using it to it's full advantage. With the build I have posted, Use CRF 3, and APO 1. That will help with sustained DPS. Other then that I don't think I would change it much. Hope this help.
Some thoughts on your advice in green. I think that my build would produce better results dueling and your posted build would be the better Alpha striker. The biggest determining factor is going to be Pathfinder's playstyle and preferences. Good info though.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
11-22-2011, 08:04 AM
I am not really built for 1v1 since that not my play style (I like to stalk then attack). With that said dog fighting can be fun though.

You could go with a borg def,eng,console (this will give you the heals). Then pick a shield of you choice, I would suggest picking one with a res of each type this way on round 2 switch shields for that energy type you opponet uses.

EPtS 1&2 (aux to damp might help if the target has psw)
haz 1 tss2 (or tractor beam 1 to hold them)

with all the cc being used having 2 copies of omega 1 might be useful.

Alot has to do with playstyle. I am more about killing a target before it kills me. I focus more on offesive traits, but this could leave me vulnerable during protracted engagements.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
11-22-2011, 10:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph.B
Some thoughts on your advice in green. I think that my build would produce better results dueling and your posted build would be the better Alpha striker. The biggest determining factor is going to be Pathfinder's playstyle and preferences. Good info though.
Those are some good thoughts. I honestly also keep the RCS accelorator in my inventory. I prefer an EPS flow regulator, and Neutronium Alloy.

Those are good sugestions about BO 3, beams and all.

I have never though of using 2 copies of APO 1. I guess is you go all DHC's, that would be a good option then go with CRF 3.


In my experiance, you are going to want EPtS 1 & 2, Polarized Hull 1, and Hazard Emmiters 2.
Hazard Emmiters 2 is your hull heal, and gies you hull resistance. If you use the full borg set, EPtS will keep your shields up pretty much all the time. The reason for Polarized Hull instead of TSS is because tractor beams can kill you because they will keep you from moing, and it gives an excellent hull resistance. However, if you have 2 copies of APO, you may not need PH.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
11-22-2011, 09:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HamRadio18
In my experiance, you are going to want EPtS 1 & 2, Polarized Hull 1, and Hazard Emmiters 2.
Hazard Emmiters 2 is your hull heal, and gies you hull resistance. If you use the full borg set, EPtS will keep your shields up pretty much all the time. The reason for Polarized Hull instead of TSS because tractor beams can kill you because they will keep you from moing, and it gives an excellent hull resistance. However, if you have 2 copies of APO, you may not need PH.
With two ApOs I've found that the need for PH is greatly reduced. I have noticed a difference in Burst DPS however. If I do get held during multiple TB, TT and TSS usually give me the time needed to wait it out, or pop EM. I have actually been pondering if it is possible to run a build that is totally immune to holds through the application of AuxID, APO, and PH. The fleet escort may be better for that due to the extra engineering though.

Most of the time I'm usually taken down through focus fire or a crit from BO. As such I tend to use TSS for the resist and supplemental shield heal. Oddly I am starting to like Resilient shields due to the bleed through reduction.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
11-26-2011, 08:09 AM
1 dbb, 3 dhc fore... as much acc as possible

2 turrets 1 array aft... as much acc as possible.

2 tactical teams, target engines2, crf1, target shields3, apo1, crf3

epts1, rsp1......he1, tss2.

carry aux and weapons batts. 3/4 borg and a high cap shield of your favor. max out weapons with the usual consoles.

dogfighting is more about piloting than your build. you need apo1 to be mostly defensive, which it mostly is. and some will tell you the trick to 1v1 escort battles is all in the timing and duration of go down fighting. to max your go down fighting duration / max your prime arc time on target and have an opportunity to stack it with your other attack buffs you have to hull tank down to a pretty slim margin, and harden (not heal) your hull. use brace for impact to accomplish this, or swap out the HE1 mentioned above for PH1.

that will leave you with no hull heal, and that is a bit sketchy. BFI works wonders when its timed right. and aux batt + HE1 + TSS2 = you are really tough, and the cooldowns pair nicely with batt cooldowns. 1 on 1 off. you should be popping batts like candy, everytime they pop up.

setup and time the spike between your targets tactical teams.

now get out there and find a combo that works for you.

have fun kill bad guys.

horizon
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